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my first engine

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my first engine

Post by hob on Tue Jun 14 2011, 21:57

Hi. I just joined here after buying a Petter A1 at a local auction, I have always been interested in seeing them on the rally fields and thought I might try restoring one. Very Happy

collected it this morning and here it is, about a 1\3 ton of seized up rust with bits missing Shocked Laughing







I found out what it was from the name plate



covers and head off



strange thing is the exhaust valve is in line with the carb and the in valve lines up with the exhaust Question

next off were the pulley and the flywheel



after unbolting the barrel i found out which end was seized, the top end the piston was solid in the bore, some bright spark had fitted the head gasket with red hermatite Shocked which had run down inside the barrel as he tightened it up Shocked

several different thickness's of wood were gradually built up between the barrel and the top of the crank case and a big hammer was used with a block of wood to knock the piston down the barrel, not a good idea i know but it was the best i could think of at the time.
all 3 rings were solidly jammed up with red hermatite and the gudgeon pin is solid in the piston too.
i just hope i didn't damage the bottom end bearing (shells?) getting the piston out Embarassed

the bore looks surprisingly good after bashing the piston out



piston

thats a bout as far as i have got so far,


thanks for looking, comments welcome

Neville

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Re: my first engine

Post by JONESEY on Tue Jun 14 2011, 22:04

Looks nice and compleat good luck with the resteration
Thanks for posting photos
Jonesey

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Re: my first engine

Post by mike d on Tue Jun 14 2011, 22:06

HI NEVILLE....

looks like your not hanging about in getting the engine sorted...
you do realize that it wont stop at one engine,
its an addiction and the numbers of engines will grow. lol! lol!
you will have to keep us posted on your progress...well done on the progress...

I've welcomed you in the new members section..

regards,mike.


Last edited by mike d on Tue Jun 14 2011, 22:12; edited 1 time in total

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Tue Jun 14 2011, 22:10

thanks guys. Very Happy are those valves the wrong way round ??

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Re: my first engine

Post by mike d on Tue Jun 14 2011, 22:14

hi neville..

im not sure as ive never had one of theses myself..
some one will put you rite..

regards,mike..

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Re: my first engine

Post by stationary stu on Wed Jun 15 2011, 09:36

Hi Neville, from the sounds of the last engine restorer he may have just put the valves in the wrong way round. The piston looks as i might be shot looking at the score marks, but I'd need to see it better once it was all cleaned up. It beats me why people use red hermitite and more so on an air cooled engine scratch scratch There doesn't look to be much missing it has most of the main bits and even a flywheel pully. You'll need to find a good petrol tank and pipe. If you sort out what else you need try an add in the wanted section.
Keep us up to date with it's progress and thanks for taking the time to post the pics.
I would date it around 1950 give or take a year or two, but you'd need to check with the experts to get a definate date..

Stu.

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Sun Jun 19 2011, 09:46

Thanks for the reply Stu.

stationary stu wrote:Hi Neville, from the sounds of the last engine restorer he may have just put the valves in the wrong way round. The piston looks as i might be shot looking at the score marks, but I'd need to see it better once it was all cleaned up.

the gudgeon pin is seized in the piston so i'm working on a puller using some threaded bar and some steel pipe, the engine is in a friends workshop so i can only work on it when he's around.

looking at the valves they are both the same size so i will probably swap them when i grind them in.


stationary stu wrote:
You'll need to find a good petrol tank and pipe.

i found an empty steel fire extinguisher thats the right size if i can't find a tank i might modify that Laughing

stationary stu wrote:
I would date it around 1950 give or take a year or two, but you'd need to check with the experts to get a definite date..
Stu.
same age as me then Rolling Eyes

i brought the carb home this weekend and gave that a clean and cleared the jets, its crap metal so it didn't clean up too well

i also bought some gasket material and started making gaskets


hopefully the casings and other odd bits will go for shot blasting some time in the next week or so, i might be buying a trailer for it at a local auction tomorrow too.
neville

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Re: my first engine

Post by Villiers on Sun Jun 19 2011, 11:42

Looks ok, I think I have a set of rings and valves if you want any, also there is a tank on ebay that will do. I can also sort you out with a new fuel pipe as I have a coil in the shed. By the look of your carb it is an early carb on a late engine. Good thing you have an exhaust as these can be hard to find.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-tank-/400224027051?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item5d2f3601ab#ht_790wt_934

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Sun Jun 19 2011, 11:50

thanks for the offers, i'm busy trying to make a video at the moment, i will get back to you soon

regards Neville

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Sun Jun 19 2011, 16:59

Villiers wrote:Looks ok, I think I have a set of rings and valves if you want any, also there is a tank on ebay that will do. I can also sort you out with a new fuel pipe as I have a coil in the shed. By the look of your carb it is an early carb on a late engine. Good thing you have an exhaust as these can be hard to find.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-tank-/400224027051?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item5d2f3601ab#ht_790wt_934

yes i bought a book and it says carb is either a Zenith 24U or a Zenith 24T-2 but mine seems to be a Solex 26-FV so maybe not the original Question

not sure if the piston is STD or oversized i will have to check now i have the size from the book. same with the valves i will have to see what they are like when i get them out. would love to have some petrol pipe i will let you know when i know how much i will need Very Happy

i need a starting handle too if anyone has a spare Question

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Re: my first engine

Post by matt86 on Sun Jun 19 2011, 19:54

welcome to the stationary engine world buddy , as mike said once u have started you cant stop lol , i started with one and now have 2 engines and various pumps lol , buying engines have been put on hold as i will be starting to build another shed , as running out of space lol

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Wed Jun 22 2011, 20:27

well i made a puller for the gudgeon pin with some threaded bar and cranked the pin out



piston is standard size



minor damage from the puller


rings are gummed up solid


started breaking them out in case the piston can be re-used


top view


took a few more casings and bits off ready for a trip to the shot blaster

and bought some transport for it Very Happy



Neville

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Re: my first engine

Post by mike d on Wed Jun 22 2011, 21:30

Hi Neville..
looking like you making good progress..you can get rings from cox and turner down my way....
they can post them to you if you want..
if you need the details,they are as follows..

COX & TURNER ENGINEERING
61 CAMEL GREEN ROAD
FORDINGBRIDGE
HANTS
SP6 3AU
01425 652627
EMAIL...ian@coxnturner.freeserve.co.uk

hope this helps you mate..
regards,mike...

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Wed Jun 22 2011, 21:35

thanks for that Mike, one of the guys here may have a set for me, if not that will come in very handy

neville

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Re: my first engine

Post by mike d on Wed Jun 22 2011, 21:50

not a problem mate.i do try to help if i can..
regards,mike....

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Re: my first engine

Post by RAB on Thu Jun 23 2011, 19:45

Hi Neville,

Your petter is a Series 2 engine, which were built between 1948 - 1951

For a definative answer to your engine dating post a letter to :-

Keith Ott
80 Hobb Lane
Hedge End
Southampton
SO3 4GP

Send a couple of pics to him and he will be able to tell you the exact date it was made and who it was first sold to.

The Valves are the wrong way round, its not a big job to change them over.

The carb that you have is from a 'Petter A' engine. youd be better to get the right type as it would run better.

Thanks for posting the pics etc, nice to see someone getting the time to do some work on an engine.

Paul


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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Thu Jun 23 2011, 20:59

Thanks for posting the pics etc, nice to see someone getting the time to do some work on an engine.

thanks for the info, damaged a disk in my neck a while back so i got retired early.
i'm a 1951 model too Laughing
i manage to potter around for a few hours but then i have to rest for a while Rolling Eyes

still pulling bits off the engine


painted my first bit today Smile (primer)

getting a towbar on the car next week Smile

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Re: my first engine

Post by stationary stu on Fri Jun 24 2011, 08:22

Your getting on very well Neville, just keep taking pics, helps with the re-build. Once you start painting it's the point where your starting the building back up of the engine I think it's a great point as your on to the finishing straight (my way of thinking to keep me going) but it takes that long for the paint to set and you'll need a few coats of primer then 2 or 3 coats of top coat so still plenty to do.
I understand where your comming from with your neck problem, both Mike and myself have lower back problems and can only work for a few hours everyday if were lucky and weather permits (not to cold or damp), so it takes me months and months to do anything yet I still enjoy doing it I'd go crazy just sitting about all day

Stu..

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Fri Jun 24 2011, 17:20

more progress today, I got the valves out for a regrind, the barrel casting is not best quality Rolling Eyes

hoping this will do, I don't want to do too much to it Question


my brother has an old Norton 250 which is being done up and I saw his engine restorer today he said my piston and barrel were OK to re-use as is Very Happy got the last bits of piston rings out today and cleaned out the grooves

small bits off the carb will be painted black


Stu, i keep taking photo's at my age i need all the help i can get Embarassed

regular uploads to
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z279/hobspics/petter%20A1%20engine/?start=all

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Re: my first engine

Post by stationary stu on Sat Jun 25 2011, 07:07

Neville what you have to remember about rebuilding a stationary engine it's not that is going to be of any importance, (I'll explain that statement) I served my time as an HGV mechanic for Leyland trucks doing mainly warranty work or engine rebuilds, which I enjoyed, nothing better then overhauling an engine then hear it roar into life again. Now after a lot of years I start on stationary engines, fully inspecting them thinking to myself that piston is scored can I re-use it, the valves won't re-seat fully as the valve face and seat needs re-cut. Sitting one day I was thinking about an engine and it's wear when it came to me it's only a stationary engine it's not running 14 hours a day non stop fully loaded if it's not 100% does it realy matter, my answer was no. The engine could have been in a ditch for the last 40 years just to give it a good clean and check nothing is to badly worn then it will do for what I need it for. But I still do it with every engine and ask "is there to much end float on the crank" I think it's something I had to learn but now I need to try and remember if it doesn't work it's not that big of a job to strip down again, so I understand your concerns about overhauling your first stationary engine but at the end of the day don't loose sleep over it, it's just a hobby and if it's not right you'll just have to sort it out again Laughing Laughing
I hope you understand where I'm coming from and I'm not having a go at you or your skills but these old lumps of iron don't need a fortune spending on them to enjoy.
Great pics, wish I'd remember to take my camera out to the shed with me. Laughing Laughing

Stu.

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Sat Jun 25 2011, 21:36

interesting philosophy Stu, I understand what you mean, if it was my only transport I'd want a re bore and a new piston as it is I'll use the old bits.

I do however want it to be fairly reliable and look good.

i'm certainly not loosing sleep over it Laughing

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Re: my first engine

Post by stationary stu on Sun Jun 26 2011, 10:19

Phew I'm glad you were able to understand the long winded write up lol! lol! No good spending £££££'s on an engine that's only worth pennies, I'm sure you'll know what to do for the best and have a great engine once it's finished.

Stu.

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Sun Jun 26 2011, 11:24

made 2 more gaskets last night.
painted a few bits this morning, my first green bits Cool


and some little mainly carb linkages painted black hanging in the conservatory roof to dry

neville

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Re: my first engine

Post by hob on Sun Jun 26 2011, 11:39

thinking about getting the pulley and flywheel skimmed on a lathe Question it would save an awful lot of work trying to do it by hand


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Re: my first engine

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 26 2011, 11:57

My opinion on Skimming - I hate it! Loose the original timing marks

and when you have nice ones like on my Scott it would be a big shame



some flywheels and pulleys are shaped to keep a belt on, plus there is alot of history in those marks!

I use a sanding block while the engine is running, then a bit of oil, comes up not to shinny, this is my WX11.



A WDII I had had very badly pitted flywheels, I used a range of files from Course to fine then wet and and dry once it was rebuilt and it came up lovely.

There she is in bits (with my Sister) as I bought it for a fiver.



And after winning the Cup for best Jnr stationary engine at the West of England steam show.



In the end its personal choice, and by the looks of things your going to do a grand job!

Cheers Steve




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Re: my first engine

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