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yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

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yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Fri Dec 09 2011, 13:41

i am the owner of a Fowler 1pa heavy duty engine . acording to the serial number and speak to a man in the know this is what i have been told .

"your engine is a heavy duty version of the 1PA which is generally a better prospect than the standard 1PA with the narrow hopper, although I personally prefer the look of the narrow hopper engines, and I guess you could change hoppers if you wanted. You will usually find the heavy duty engines will have steel cam gear and mag gear and a mazak governor gear. Only the very early engines had a cast governor gear and often a mix of cast or mazak mag gears. Despite the governor gears being mazak these usually seem to be ok, its the mazak mag gears that are the problem and are often found broken or cracking. Engines with a cast iron mag housing should have the cast side cover so your engine is correct, again these can get mixed up with Mazak parts which is incorrect. A good friend up here who collects Fowlers has some theories on the engine numbers. The early engines were 10xxx series but with the ‘00’ prefix this is definitely a later engine but there is no guidance as to timescales. There is also thought that because of the poor quality of the engines many were returned to Fowler, rebuilt, and sent out again with the ‘00’ prefix but this is only speculation. Another theory is that when Freeman-Sanders left Fowler the numbering range was updated with the ‘00’ prefix. In any case I would put your engine in the later end of the scale circa 40’s ".

A few pictures ...










So far all the external parts have been removed and got the hopper off with no problems . Cleaned the points on the mag up too and believe it or not there is a nice spark .

hope you guys like ...

I have noticed that you dont see many of these about .... i wouldnt say they are a rare engine but are defently uncommon cant rember seeing many on the rally field last year .

Regards , matt


Last edited by matt86 on Tue Jan 01 2013, 18:20; edited 1 time in total

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by stationary stu on Fri Dec 09 2011, 17:27

Nice engine Matt, where you finding all these rusty gems??? You deffo need to get that shed sorted now so you can work in comfort.

Stu.

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Fri Dec 09 2011, 18:56

stationary stu wrote:Nice engine Matt, where you finding all these rusty gems??? You deffo need to get that shed sorted now so you can work in comfort.

Stu.

Ahhh now stu that would be telling its not what you know its who you know lol! lol! lol!

the shed will be finished in the new year , as its been put on pause due to xmas shopping etc and been involved in laying some new carpets ...but in the new year i will crack on with it . that shed will be mainly for storing them though .

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Fri Dec 09 2011, 21:39

Looks nice and complete, nice engines too.
That will keep you busy over christmas
Jonesey

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Fri Dec 09 2011, 23:09

i do require a few things , a fuel tank cap or a decent tank with a brass cap i can use for the neck . The hard bit is going to be guvnor springs , as when i took the timing cover off the springs had deteriorated . I was thinking i could use some clutch return springs but how will i know what the correct tension i should have is .... i have been looking on the manual off the IF website and says there are 2 types . 750 rpm and 1000rpm .

Would i be corect with the bob weights inward that would slow the engine down and with them swung out would be faster .... ?

I do have plans to paint this engine , and make it a pukka show stopper so there is no rush !

regards , matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Sat Dec 10 2011, 00:33

Let me now the size of the fuel cap I have a stock of fuel caps and necks to solder on.
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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Sat Dec 10 2011, 00:34

JONESEY wrote:Let me now the size of the fuel cap I have a stock of fuel caps and necks to solder on.
Jonesey

That would be brilliant Chris . Measure across the thread at the base ok ?

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Sat Dec 10 2011, 00:38

The size of the neck they have a flange on them so you can solder them from the top
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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Sat Dec 10 2011, 00:47

Chris , i have measured it

outside measurement is 47.55mm , 1.8720 or in English converts to 1" 55/64

inside measurement is 40.36mm , 1.5890 and in English converts to 1" 37/64

does not matter if is slightly bigger though .

Cheers

Matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by stationary stu on Sat Dec 10 2011, 10:23

Matt has the gov. springs fallen apart or could you get a pic. of one as I have a box of bit's n pieces I could have a look in, or could you not adapt one off another engine?

You'll have to take some pics as you overhaul/paint it so we can see how your getting on.

Good luck with it Matt, when you start,

Stu.

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Sat Dec 10 2011, 11:28

stationary stu wrote:Matt has the gov. springs fallen apart or could you get a pic. of one as I have a box of bit's n pieces I could have a look in, or could you not adapt one off another engine?

You'll have to take some pics as you overhaul/paint it so we can see how your getting on.

Good luck with it Matt, when you start,

Stu.

They was in tiny bits rusted away as soon i touched it it fell apart on me Crying or Very sad

i have ordered a big selection box of springs 150 pieces i think of fleebay for £9 so i shall see if there is anything in there 1st . I dont have a clue when im going to start it as got so many other things going on lol . well i think it will be next spring as when the weather is better so i will be able to paint .

I am having some time this weekend working on the A . I have taken the timing cover off and there is serious amount of sludge ... that will teach me getting it up and running without removing the flywheels .... Laughing


oh well im going to get on with the digging the sludge out so i can start cracking and get it running over the xmas period .

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by stationary stu on Sat Dec 10 2011, 16:15

Matt I have a box of assorted springs that's why I was asking. I also have some others that I've picked up over the years so if you don't find what your looking for give me a shout and I'll see what I have.

Stu.

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Sat Dec 10 2011, 16:46

Cheers stu Smile i think it will be a trial by error situation as my engine is a 750 rpm , but if i can get away with using a Lister D 700 rpm one that will do , as near enough ... looks like i will have to get myself a tachograph .

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Sun Dec 11 2011, 20:48

Matt these are the caps let me now if they are any good I will send you one
Jonesey
These are the size's
1.771" = 44.99
1.310 = 33.26
1.008 = 25.60
Jonesey

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Sun Dec 11 2011, 21:01

Thats just what i need Chris .

1.771" = 44.99 that be the size that would be the best as closest to the original size .

Would you like me to pm you my address ? how much would you want for it ?

Cheers matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Sun Dec 11 2011, 21:04

Just the address thank you I will send you some fuel packing as well is there anything else you need before I post it
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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Sun Dec 11 2011, 21:45

JONESEY wrote:Just the address thank you I will send you some fuel packing as well is there anything else you need before I post it
Jonesey

Cheers Chris . that all i can think of .

Thanks for you help chap . PM sent your way .

Regards , matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Wed Dec 14 2011, 22:31

i have been doing some more work on the fowler tonight and have got it unsiezed with the piston out the camshaft is out as well but the most annoying thing was the camshaft bearings ... As they are made from Mazzak ...Micky mouse cast ali where the cam had seized and turned the engine over i think that's how they broke and the other one as was tapping out with a soft faced hammer and a brass drift the area around the stud hole broke off ! Mad Mad Mad Don't know what to do about that ...

As these engine are not common you dont tend to see parts up for sale so i dont know either to get some cast ..... or should get some machined out of phosphor bronze ? They ar not big at all but a funny shape so might cost a bit and has oil drillings on inside .

Any ideas on this guys ?

matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Wed Dec 14 2011, 23:14

Matt can you post some photos so I can look at what it involves
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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Wed Dec 14 2011, 23:16

JONESEY wrote:Matt can you post some photos so I can look at what it involves
Jonesey

give me ten mins mate il go get some pictures done ..

matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Wed Dec 14 2011, 23:36

here are the pictures of the camshaft bearings











As you can see the metal is money metal !

I think the best way would be to make them from brass stock , either get some round bar and get it turned with the lip on etc , and make the end plate and countersink a recess so will fit inside and then drill a hole in middle of end plate and silver solder two parts together . As a big lump of brass and the machining costs would be very expensive if was made from 1 lump .

also one of the big shells has broken and disintegrated the bits in the picture are the bigger bits the smaller lumps are in the sludge in the botom of the sump .

what would be the best idea to sort it ?

matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Wed Dec 14 2011, 23:50

Matt whats stoping you making some out of an exhaust flange with a tink wall pipe welded on to the flange.
Then have a f bronze bush made to tap in I would really need to seeit in the flesh but it do's not look much of a problem.
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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Wed Dec 14 2011, 23:57

JONESEY wrote:Matt whats stoping you making some out of an exhaust flange with a tink wall pipe welded on to the flange.
Then have a f bronze bush made to tap in I would really need to seeit in the flesh but it do's not look much of a problem.
Jonesey

Chris they are alot smaller than a exhaust flange size .Regarding the big ens what is best to do with that to get another set made ?

Cheers , matt

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by JONESEY on Thu Dec 15 2011, 00:23

First thing to do is ask around ,the small cam shaft ones I can make for you as long as I have pattern
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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

Post by matt86 on Thu Dec 15 2011, 00:46

should be ok with the cam bearings at the moment , just need to go and speak to a machinist 1st , well that's after i have drawn up some plans and dimensions . I have got a day off work tomorrow so may do some measuring and a bit of drawing .

When i get the big eng bearing made , would i need to take the crank with con rod and big end cap to the manufacture or can they go on dimensions over the phone ?

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Re: yet another rusty lump ! Fowler 1pa restoration .

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