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new toy .......Villiers Mk15

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new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Sun Mar 11 2012, 17:08

something for me to play with away from the workshops

looks like it was on some sort of rotavator










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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by stationary stu on Mon Mar 12 2012, 11:32

Nice looking engine Neville looks to be all there and your correct it is out of a rotavator or something similar. There is a lawn mower forum that might be able to help you if you need more info on it. So is it a runner? whats your plans with it? the tin work all looks good so it should clean up well for painting.

Stu.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Mon Mar 12 2012, 17:37

stationary stu wrote: So is it a runner? whats your plans with it? the tin work all looks good so it should clean up well for painting.

Stu.

Stu its a long term project, don't know if it runs....not a lot of compression though.

i will strip it down and take the head off for a look might be a stuck valve.

its something for me to potter round at the weekends and summer evenings when i'm not at the workshop also something to practice my painting on before i do the national paintwork.

i might try to run the pillar drill with it eventually.

neville

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by stationary stu on Tue Mar 13 2012, 11:51

Sounds a good idea to practice the painting and the weather is warming up so that helps, also warm the paint up before using it helps it to flow better.

Keep us updated on it's progress as you've done a good job on your other items it will be nice to see the finished engine.

Stu.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Tue Mar 13 2012, 23:10

found some info on my engine

Monro Tiller series 3.

In November 1955 the Monro Tiller series 2 was joined by the series 3. The series 3 had a more powerful Villiers Mk 15 overhead valve engine. The series 3 gearbox gained an extra gear making it a 3 speed machine, with the gear lever on top of the handle bar support casting. The series 3 also had reverse gear, which worked in all gears giving 3 forward and 3 reverse, this was operated by a clutch like lever on the r/h handlebar. The reverse gear mechanism is mounted on the l/h side of the gearbox.

Production ran from 1955 to 1965 with a run of approx 4500 machines.

which gives me a rough date for it and confirms the paint colour is original.see image at the bottom of this page
http://vintage-gardenmachines.freeservers.com/custom.html


Last edited by hob on Wed Mar 14 2012, 16:30; edited 1 time in total

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by mike d on Wed Mar 14 2012, 01:02

looks like you are going to be bizzy neville...
good luck with it..thanks sharing it with us all...
mike...

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Thu Apr 05 2012, 16:10

not much time to play with this so far but i did take the petrol tank and rocker cover off and clean them up for painting, after 3 coats of primer and a sand down I'm ready for my first attempt at spray painting for about 15 years Shocked

started with a petrol tank from a scrap Mk 15 i was given for spares (the spray paint is 15 years old too) Laughing




I bought a couple of cans of Ford Nordic blue for the main engine (looks about the right colour) from halfords the other day...................

the rocker box is not too bad



petrol tank brackets could be better but not too bad



not too pleased with the petrol tank though..................



i need to sharpen up my skills a bit on this.............maybe i'm holding the spray can too close ??



a rub down before the next coat should cure that though.................

Still it was nice to be back in the greenhouse though on a nice sunny day Cool (i will lose my spray booth in there in a week or two when i move about 300 plants back in there) Rolling Eyes now i have blue fingers instead of green Laughing Laughing

i was wondering, would it be a good idea to spray on a couple of coats of clear lacquer after painting to give a better finish?

A lot of fuss for a 22 quid Villiers i know but i want to get this painting lark right before i do the national F type next year.

time to put them back in the airing cupboard to harden off (warmest place in the house)

referring to discussion in another topic....................being divorced is great................ i can put what i want where i want it when i want to......................the only person to nag is me Laughing

living alone means everything you put down is exactly where you left it last time you used it.............the only drawback is trying to remember where you left it Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Apr 05 2012, 17:13

its up to you what you want it to look like in the end and if you want to spend the extra for laquere
kev

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Thu Apr 05 2012, 17:23

kevjhnsn wrote:its up to you what you want it to look like in the end and if you want to spend the extra for laquere
kev

Kev its not about how the villiers will look its about learning how to paint before i go for a full restore on the more valuable national F type a very rare engine that i want to get right.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by matt86 on Thu Apr 05 2012, 21:51

hob wrote:
kevjhnsn wrote:its up to you what you want it to look like in the end and if you want to spend the extra for laquere
kev

Kev its not about how the villiers will look its about learning how to paint before i go for a full restore on the more valuable national F type a very rare engine that i want to get right.

If i was you i would be painting the national F by hand with a engine enamel or spreay it with a spray gun and compressor . these engines was never lacquered from new , they was farm engines so just a few coats of paint , and would last years .

thats my view on them , matt

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by DanBoy on Fri Apr 06 2012, 09:50

I would be careful using car paints, or anything that is not heat and petrol resistant. I sprayed my JAP with ordinary enamel paint and with the first drip of petrol it all dissolved. I've had to do it all again, this time using Hammerite (only because I had a tin of red lying around) and it was horrible to use. Too little and it didn't smooth out, too much and it ran. I think I will only be using proper engine enamel/tractor paint in the future.

PS. I've got a Mk 15 in the shed with a broken exhaust stud if you need any spares.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Fri Apr 06 2012, 09:56

thanks for the info Dan, i will have to test the paint before i go too far.

thanks for the offer, i got a scrap Mk 15 here too.

neville

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Fri Apr 06 2012, 10:01

matt86 wrote:

If i was you i would be painting the national F by hand with a engine enamel or spray it with a spray gun and compressor . these engines was never lacquered from new , they was farm engines so just a few coats of paint , and would last years .

that's my view on them , matt

Matt you are probably right, i doubt that engines were spray painted in 1935?
National F type engines were not farm engines, they were developed to power air compressors which were used to start the bigger industrial engines that National made.

neville

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by matt86 on Fri Apr 06 2012, 10:15

hob wrote:
matt86 wrote:

If i was you i would be painting the national F by hand with a engine enamel or spray it with a spray gun and compressor . these engines was never lacquered from new , they was farm engines so just a few coats of paint , and would last years .

that's my view on them , matt

Matt you are probably right, i doubt that engines were spray painted in 1935?
National F type engines were not farm engines, they were developed to power air compressors which were used to start the bigger industrial engines that National made.

neville

well i still very doubtfull it would of been sprayed , you best bet is to use a good quality brush and prime with red oxide 2 - 3 coats and rub down inbetween coats for a key and 2 - 3 of engine enamel as top coat ( you can use tractor paints)

here is a picture of a freshly painted hopper for my fowler .



and its got a really good shine on it Smile it will be hard by now was painted 2 months ago and still not assembled , got lots more to do on the fowler ,

matt

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by stationary stu on Fri Apr 06 2012, 10:53

Lots of trial and error when it comes to painting but the best to use as a top coat is a machine enamal either to spray or brush. The first coat for me is always red oxide then depending on the colour of the top coat either more red oxide or white or grey primer and I don't bother with clear laqure unless I've had to paint something that wasn't painted with enamal. Any runs (either spraying to close or to much paint) I wait till they dry and cut with a razor blade before sanding flat. Any flys that get on when painting leave till paint dry and wipe of the fly you'll never see there legs LOL.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by matt86 on Fri Apr 06 2012, 13:40

stationary stu wrote:Any flys that get on when painting leave till paint dry and wipe of the fly you'll never see there legs LOL.
Stu.

If you want to attract flys paint your engine white and within seconds you will get flys ! Happed to me when i was painting a door outside , painted a area of about a ft square and turned round to get something tunrned around and there was a fly right in the middle of the new paint!

sods law it comes down to .
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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Fri Apr 06 2012, 19:00

took the cowling off today, trying to sand off the rust was hard going, so i put the sandpaper away and used a small file instead............i had a bit more luck with that but its still hard going.



i managed to unscrew the makers name plate and cleaned that up.



not sure on the best way to remove the villiers plates though, may be best to drill the rivets out?





I'm going to have to try to find another transfer for that last one.

anyone know what is missing from this bit? another name plate maybe?



found 2 lots of numbers on the flywheel





I'm guessing it was made in 1963 but no idea why its dated both April and June?

neville

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Fri Apr 06 2012, 21:30

been looking at my images of the engine with the idea of designing some sort of stand or trolley for it

the sump seems to be designed specially to fit the monro tiller as there are no mounting lugs on it allowing it to fit tight to the machine.

the only mounts i can find are the 4 bolts round the drive shaft where the gear box would have fitted.

its going to take a while to figure how i can bolt it down somehow Rolling Eyes


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National F type 1935.............wood planer
argosy pump
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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by stationary stu on Sat Apr 07 2012, 10:14

Your getting on well with the clean up, I find that a wire brush in a drill works best but saying that I now use one of those knotted wire brushes and put it in my angle grinder, don't forget to wear a mask!!!
You can get the Villiers transfers of ebay if your's is to far gone. Can you get any pics of the bottom of the engine to see if anyone has had the same problems with mounting one and they may have a few ideas for you.

Stu.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Sat Apr 07 2012, 10:34

stationary stu wrote:Can you get any pics of the bottom of the engine to see if anyone has had the same problems with mounting one and they may have a few ideas for you.

Stu.

the only thing sticking out is the oil filler








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National F type 1935.............wood planer
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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by stationary stu on Sat Apr 07 2012, 10:39

That is a problem Neville, only thing I could see is make some brackets and use the studs that hold the sump on.

Stu.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Sun Apr 15 2012, 18:27

found time today for another look at this ..........................finished painting these bits and a coat of lacquer.............




took the head off too ...........looks better than i thought





i need to get the piston out for a look at the rings as the compression is not what it should be ..........

moved about 300 plants to their summer home so now i have a bit more room to play.............



looks like the barrel is part of the base casting so presumably i will need to take the sump off and undo the bottom of the conrod to get the piston off for a look at the rings .......................... not much compression when i looked at it......................... and no spark so not a simple restore ahead of me.

Neville

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by stationary stu on Mon Apr 16 2012, 10:20

Some where warm to work, it's ok for some LOL. You'll need to get the flywheel off to have a look at the electrics and that can sometimes be abit of a job. There's hardly any deposits on the head or piston, it's either not done much work or someone else has been there before you! Is there much wear in the bore (any ridge at the top) as it might just have a sticking ring.

Keep up the good work,

Stu.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by hob on Tue Jun 05 2012, 14:01

Being a bank holiday I had time to have another look at this engine today.

there seem to be all sorts of modifications made to the engine for use on the cultivator, i read the book i downloaded to see how to examine and set the mag.....................



timing and points setting seems to be done with the flywheel in place through some cutouts in the flywheel................

really ................ Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


had a look at the flywheel with the piston at TDC and it looks to be set about three eights before TDC at the moment, there is no spark at the plug either............. Rolling Eyes



oh well i thought i'll remove and clean out the sump instead................the sump is also not an original Villiers part either Rolling Eyes being made of cast alloy of some sort poorly cast and badly finished with a Charles Munro casting number on the bottom...........bent my thick 12 inch rule trying to remove the sump plug so just gave up and took the whole thing off and poured the oil into a jam jar instead.




found this stamped on the top of the barrel



no idea what it means as the Monro Tiller series 3 was not made until 1955 so it can't be a date.

Monro Tiller series 3.

In November 1955 the Monro Tiller series 2 was joined by the series 3. The series 3 had a more powerful Villiers Mk 15 overhead valve engine. The series 3 gearbox gained an extra gear making it a 3 speed machine, with the gear lever on top of the handle bar support casting. The series 3 also had reverse gear, which worked in all gears giving 3 forward and 3 reverse, this was operated by a clutch like lever on the r/h handlebar. The reverse gear mechanism is mounted on the l/h side of the gearbox.

Production ran from 1955 to 1965 with a run of approx 4500 machines.

the numbers on the flywheel seem to indicate mine was made in 1963

all in all not a good day, i'm tempted to throw it in the nearest skip and watch telly instead..... Laughing Laughing

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Petter A1 .......................Union pillar drill
National F type 1935.............wood planer
argosy pump
Villiers mk 15

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

Post by Foden on Tue Jun 05 2012, 16:54

If you remove that centre bolt then the starter pulley and plate will come off to reveal the magneto assembly and the flywheel securing nut, it is just a dirt shield. Usually the problem is corrosion on the flywheel magnets, remove the flywheel and give the magnets and contact points on the coil assembly a good clean and clean and reset the points, reset the timing and try again!

Pete.

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Re: new toy .......Villiers Mk15

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