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My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by nutgone on Thu Sep 06 2012, 10:57

stationary stu wrote:The coloured HT lead sets it off a bit more there's plenty of colours to choose from if you decide to go that way, personally I would with the black engine.

http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/plug-leads-conectors-ht-lead/ht-plug-cables.html?p=1

Stu.

Yes, Green Sparkplugs do a nice range of cotton braided HT leads, they don't have to be fancy 2 or 3 colour ones, they do just a plain black or plain red (I think there may be others, possibly a blue???) with the cotton braid.

I personally like the cotton braided HT leads, but I don't like the ones they call "Gloss Finish" as these are just cotton braided with a clear plastic coating on the outside. (which look OK & are protected to a certain degree from oil & grease etc, I just don't like them personally, I think they are too shiny)

I reckon a nice plain red cotton braided lead would look good on this, but that's just my opinion, others may think that'll look ghastly....



http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/plug-leads-conectors-ht-lead/ht-plug-cables/misc-core-cotton-red.html

Here's a close-up of the lead I used on the Tarpen, which also came from Greens....



I also used one of Green Sparkplug's new Rajah plug terminals, they are a bit more expensive than the usual thin brass ones, but I liked the look....



http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/spark-plugs/spark-plug-connectors1/spark-plug-terminals-rajah-ring-terminal-brass.html

Once again, here's a pic of the one I put on the Tarpen....



Just a few ideas, it's all a matter of personal taste at the end of the day.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by stationary stu on Fri Sep 07 2012, 09:49

I have to say it's all up to the individual myself I think the cotton braid looks good on older engines more to the period where as newer engines can get away with the shiney coloured leads. A red engine looks good with the red lead where as this black Lister D would look good with yellow or red just to set it off a bit but I'm sure plenty others (the SE gods) will say that it's wrong and they should all be black but that's where the "it's my engine that I saved from scrap" trump card can be played and do what ever you want with your engine.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by nutgone on Fri Sep 07 2012, 10:55

I do have some of the "Gloss" cotton braid HT lead as well, in the workshop, it's yellow with dark blue/black flecks in it. I might just take a pic of it, just to show the difference between the gloss finish (plastic coated) & the straight cotton braided one. I would think the plastic coat could be removed, but I haven't tried it. I suppose I could have a go, it's expensive stuff, but I'm sure I can spare an inch or two....


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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by stationary stu on Sat Sep 08 2012, 10:02

Might be an idea to have a look at it without the plastic as I'm sure it will look better, the problem is you never get a true likeness in a photograph.

Stu.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by Biggsy on Sun Sep 09 2012, 07:00

started the rebuild.....


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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by matt86 on Sun Sep 09 2012, 09:05

thts looking nice Smile

Keep up the good work .

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by stationary stu on Sun Sep 09 2012, 10:12

That's looking very smart, just a thought you can get the starting handle on with the engine mounted on the trolley?

Stu.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by Biggsy on Sun Sep 09 2012, 21:14

well had another blast today......got a lot more bits bolted back on and then it struck me......some oil and fuel and shes ready for a try...

so all looks good....double checked all nuts...gaskets and all seems ok, filled here up with oil, water in the hopper and filled float chamber with fuel....tank not yet fitted!!!!

gave here a spin.....she hissed....popped and spat back through the carb....mmmmm....timing.

so watching rockers i turned her through strokes...intake open...fuel drawn in....inlet close....compression....stopped flywheel at top of compression stroke with ignition mark at top....yep mag in wrong place, corrected so points just opening and put the covers back......i had set tappets at 12 thou,
points and plug at 20 thou, other than that just bolted back together, turned mixture full on and gave it another go...

http://youtu.be/9u7d_yJY6bc

omg.....third turn and not hard she started....backed mixture off a little and i just loved the sound.....can't explain the feeling....you would have thought i had just becoe a dad or something lol.....

my need a tweak here or there but i don't know ?????

need to shorten ht lead, paint exhaust and fit fuel tank, then its onto shearing gear...

to top it all....guy walked past and said he liked it...would i take £400

cheers cheers cheers thanks extatic paul cheers cheers cheers


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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by hob on Sun Sep 09 2012, 21:27

sounds pretty good to me Very Happy

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by stationary stu on Mon Sep 10 2012, 10:24

Great news Paul you must be over the moon, it looks good and sounds good, maybe tick over a bit fast but for it's first run she sounds great and once everything settles back in she'll be even better.

Great job, cheers cheers cheers

Stu.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by Biggsy on Mon Sep 10 2012, 14:38

mmmm how do we adjust idle speed?

anyone

ta Question

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by hob on Mon Sep 10 2012, 16:24

Biggsy wrote:mmmm how do we adjust idle speed?

anyone

ta Question

have you got round to fitting the hook and spring on to the governor linkage yet? thats the adjuster for the speed it should be on one of the sides near the top

looks like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lister-D-external-governor-hook-and-adjusting-nut-/250757902302?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item3a6255efde

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by Biggsy on Mon Sep 17 2012, 14:12

mmmmm first run sounded sweet,
next day a few water runs from head gasket and 2nd run a bit smokey...
tightened head nuts and its a bit better but not right....

does anyone know what torque we should tighten to, i don't want to just keep tightening and end up shearing a stud!!!

when engine is running air is blowing out of gaps in rocker cover??? don't think thats right either???

may whip head off and check, before assembly faces were smooth and clean...

or do i just plaster the faces in that red gasket stuff that Nutgone loves cheers

any pointers?

ta

paul

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by steve w on Mon Sep 17 2012, 14:29

great looking engine - gives me hope that one day i might get mine running , steve.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by hob on Mon Sep 17 2012, 16:56

Biggsy wrote:

or do i just plaster the faces in that red gasket stuff that Nutgone loves cheers



paul

not unless you want to glue the rings into the piston.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by Ianhw77k on Mon Sep 17 2012, 20:51

Are you tightening the nuts up in the right order? I'm assuming you know about diagonal opposites etc?
Mind you, I would think it would be pretty hard to warp a big cast iron head like that.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by nutgone on Mon Sep 17 2012, 21:10

I was going to ignore you altogether, after the "Red Stuff" comment, but I will just treat it with the contempt it deserves. Laughing

Anyway, what type of gasket are you using? Is it solid copper? Is it new or just the one which came off???

If it's solid copper it will need to be annealed to soften it up. This involves heating the whole thing up to cherry red & quenching it in water. This process is best done on the whole gasket at once, but this can be difficult on larger gaskets without the use of a furnace.

If it's a new one then it should be fine. Were the faces absolutely clean, I mean spotless, & completely flat? No little imperfections??? (OK, so it's a very old machine, you may well get one or two imperfections, but I mean "anything serious?")

I don't wanna spark off the whole "head gasket" debate again, as there are one or two "odd-ball" companies who obviously got something wrong in the design department ( Twisted Evil ) but the general consensus is a completely clean, dry, flat face on both sides & it should seal. (Obviously with a gasket, a clean, dry gasket Smile ).

Hopefully something here may have made you think again, I guess it's a head-off job now, to have a look. See if you can see anything. Try & take it off as carefully as possible, you might just be able to spot where it's leaking from.

BTW, for what it's worth, I would always prefer solid copper head gaskets for my engines, I just find they are better in general. They are re-usable, after annealing, & they just seem to work better, in my experience. Also, as is often the case with these engines, if you need to take the head off again, you know you can nearly always re-use a solid gasket, composite ones are a bit of a lottery in this respect.

Best of luck. Wink

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by steve w on Tue Sep 18 2012, 06:58

not done a stationary engine but have done a fair few series A engines on my morris minors, i usede to always seat the gasket on the thinnest smear of gasket seal just to take out any imperfections or tracks.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by nutgone on Tue Sep 18 2012, 09:59

Unless some idiot has used a screwdriver to get the head off there shouldn't be any need for any sealants, the gasket, together with the force applied when the bolts are tightened down, should be enough to fill any minor imperfections.

Trouble with me is, I've been taught how to do things properly & I refuse to do them any other way, but these machines are old & have passed through many hands, lots of which had no idea whatsoever what they were doing, as seen by the marks on the timing case of my little JAP, someone has obviously had difficulties getting the faces parted in the past & quickly resorted to using a screwdriver (which should be butchery in anyone's book).

I've seen what happens to some of the best instant gasket compounds under high temperatures & medium pressures, there's no way I would put them on a head joint unless I really had to. But sometimes you do have to do these things. I know pauldg was talking about making his own head gaskets from copper wire & using lead to make up any imperfections on the joint beforehand. Now these are more my kind of ways of solving problems with head joints, but definitely not this!....



There was actually a very good copper ring gasket buried under all that somewhere, which after cleaning & annealing has sealed perfectly.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by nutgone on Tue Sep 18 2012, 11:57

Some time ago I said I would look into some HT lead & post a few pics, well here it is;

I have some "gloss finish" yellow with blue (or black) fleck HT lead. This "Gloss" finish is simply a clear plastic coating, I don't personally like it, but here's some pics of it close up....





Just to refresh your memories here's a close up of the cotton braided stuff....



I also tried to remove the "Gloss" finish from the yellow stuff & it is impossible without removing the cotton as well.

Just thought I'd let you know. Wink

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by stationary stu on Wed Sep 19 2012, 10:27

Can I add that everyone has there own opinion on using a very small amount of sealant on a head gasket, we know that it's a big no no for Nuts but in my opinion it's down to common sense. If you have a good flat block and head there's no need but over time on water cooled engines the water tends to eat away at the surface under the gasket so you might feel that a very thin coating is needed to get a perfect seal again. There's plenty of horor stories of people stripping engines down to find red hermitite running down the bore and clogging up piston rings so anyone using a sealant you've been warned. The other alternative is getting the block and head skimmed at a motor engineers worth doing on some engines but not on others, overhauling engines comes down to common sense and sometimes you have to stand back and think before going ahead with some jobs. If every Lister D had a full factory re-work it would cost a small fortune to replace, grind, hone what ever to get the engine back to 100% as when it was new. Most of these engines we own have had a rough life so all we can do is our best to get them up and running in a reasonable condition. Don't forget in most cases there older then we are.

Ok rant over ... I don't think the use of sealants on head gaskets needs anything more saying about it so if you post regarding the use of sealants it may be deleted.

Stu.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by stationary stu on Wed Sep 19 2012, 10:29

Nuts thanks for posting the 2 different types of cable I prefer the look of the plain cloth myself but in my opinion it would only look good used on the older engines to try and keep in character.

Stu.

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by Biggsy on Sun Jun 23 2013, 16:37

not a good year....had double knee surgery and been out the frame for a while...but started to do a bit on shearing end of restoration,  hope you are all well

thanks

paul

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Re: My lister D Sheep Shear Rig First Resto....

Post by stationary stu on Fri Jun 28 2013, 12:47

Good to hear your on the mend Paul, just take things slow and hopefully you should be back to your old self very soon.

Stu.

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