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My little JAP

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Sun Jul 08 2012, 00:28

The only progress that's happened since the last update has been in my head...

I was intending to wait until I had my blasting cabinet up and running before building this engine properly, but as that could take anything between another month to about 6 years I think I might change my mind.

Might just be time to break out the wire brushes and get it as clean as I can by hand, paint and rebuild - then do it all over again when I can blast it. It's either that or it sits around in pieces in a box for ages. At least it'll be usable and protected from further decay.

Another bonus is I get to bore you lot with more pictures of it a whole lot sooner too Smile

Paul

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Re: My little JAP

Post by stationary stu on Sun Jul 08 2012, 12:32

Paul have you checked out the garden machinery forums to see what they can offer in identifying it. I did have one saved on my pc but can't find it now but I'll keep looking.

Stu.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Mon Jul 09 2012, 09:10

I'm a member on a couple of the garden machinery/horticultural forums so I might give it a shot later. I'm pretty sure it's ex-mod now due to the stamping I found on the crank (pic to follow).

Experiments with various cleaning methods/concepts - coming soon!

Paul

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Re: My little JAP

Post by stationary stu on Mon Jul 09 2012, 11:29

Paul I found this info don't know if it will help in any way think you may already have it.

The 4/2 was 245cc, 2.4bhp @ 2400rpm, Wico Mag A576BZ.
The 4/3 was 288cc, 3.5bhp @ 2400rpm, Wico Mag CJ936
The Model 5 was 412cc, 4.5bhp @ 2200rpm, Wico Mag CJ936
The Model 6 was 588cc, 5.5bhp @ 1800rpm, Wico Mag CJ936
The Model 55 was 824cc, 8bhp @ 2000rpm, Wico Mag.

I thought I had the bore sizes but can't find them but I'll continue looking.

Stu.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Mon Jul 09 2012, 13:10

stationary stu wrote:Paul I found this info don't know if it will help in any way think you may already have it.

64.5x75 The 4/2 was 245cc, 2.4bhp @ 2400rpm, Wico Mag A576BZ.
70x75 The 4/3 was 288cc, 3.5bhp @ 2400rpm, Wico Mag CJ936
80x82 The Model 5 was 412cc, 4.5bhp @ 2200rpm, Wico Mag CJ936
85x102 The Model 6 was 588cc, 5.5bhp @ 1800rpm, Wico Mag CJ936
twin The Model 55 was 824cc, 8bhp @ 2000rpm, Wico Mag.

I thought I had the bore sizes but can't find them but I'll continue looking.

Stu.

Cheers for looking Stu.

I've added bore x stroke to your list. There was also:
57.5x57.5, Model 3, 150cc, 1.75bhp @ 2800rpm Wico FW1269 mag

Mine is:
64.5x57, Model TBC, 186cc (actually, it's 65.2x57 - 0.020" rebore so 190cc!) mag is Wico FW841/1 flywheel and Wico FW1194 backplate.

I'll run the 400 out and get a photo of mine next to a 4/3 at some point...

Paul

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Tue Jul 10 2012, 00:38

Seeing as I couldn't really do much else on the main bits of the engine due to the weather and darkness, I thought I'd have a look at the carb...

You can have a look too!




Then I took it apart - except for the butterfly and spindle, the butterfly screws are really rusted in so I'm probably going to have to chisel them off and then re-drill the holes.



So, I think I've proved really well that I can take things apart - I really must start getting things put back together again Rolling Eyes

I'm not sure yet whether I'll be using this carb, I'm quite sure it's not original - not that it makes a lot of difference on this engine - but I don't know yet if I can make it work properly with the governor. I have a selection of carbs sat about anyway so I'm sure I can find something to suit it.

I'll probably still get this one sorted one way or another at some point, but I'm going to look in the pile and see what I've got that might work better.

This one is an Amal, but my knowledge of the different models they made is quite limited... I've never had trouble fixing them, I just never know what to call them! The only marking on this one is below, not sure if it's a model or a date



Next thing to do is either: start the cleaning experiments, or fix up the governor.

Which I get to first is down to the weather as much as anything else.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by stationary stu on Tue Jul 10 2012, 12:03

I think I'd have a go at putting that carb back together and see how it runs first before changing things about as the jets sizes could be set for that engine if it's a model just made for the army.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Tue Jul 10 2012, 12:18

stationary stu wrote:I think I'd have a go at putting that carb back together and see how it runs first before changing things about as the jets sizes could be set for that engine if it's a model just made for the army.

Stu.

I'll probably give it a go (I don't like throwing things so it'd never just get dumped anyway) and see if/how it runs - never know, whoever fitted might just have thought about jet sizing! I'll sort a pic of the manifold so you can see what I mean about it being a non-original fitment.

There's a couple of challenges with the carb, but nothing I haven't dealt with before so it should be alright...

Paul

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Wed Jul 11 2012, 22:07

I had stuff other than this to do, so I thought I'd do a quick and easy job that I could fit in between...





What's the verdict?

It's just 'popped' together to see what it looks like, I need to find my box of fibre/copper washers - I do hope I still have it. I must admit I'm less than pleased with the finish on the main body. I'm going to give it more polish to see what happens and if I'm still not happy I may well enamel it like the float bowl. The brass bits need a bit more work too before I'm content.

This has started me thinking about the colour of the rest of the engine. I was never going to do it green like it was, but now I'm leaning towards black, gold and polished bits (and all brass nuts/bolts). If I do that it'll be a real pain as it'd mean buying gold paint Rolling Eyes

Paul

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Re: My little JAP

Post by stationary stu on Thu Jul 12 2012, 11:35

I think it looks good Paul, I'd be happy with the outcome. There is a few engines painted black and the do look nice but I find when painting black you must do a top class job if not it shows all the imperfections. Have a look at Abes engines and equipment, he's done most of his with grating black, at first I didn't think much of it (sorry Abes) but it's growing on me and I do like the finish now. I'm not saying do the same but take a look at black engines and see what you think.

Stu.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Jul 12 2012, 12:57

nice bit of cleaning ,
and polishing mate
from old too not so old ,in a short space of hours lol
keep it up mate
looking good
kev

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Thu Jul 12 2012, 16:44

I'm still pondering what to do...

My issue is the quality of finish - one of the things that's making me think it's ex-ministry, at a time when they didn't bother about cosmetics.




If I do that in gloss black it's probably going to look bloody awful. Like Stu said, and I've seen many times, gloss black shows every single blemish and is the hardest colour to make look good. That said, I have also seen a scrappy finish look fine with gloss so I might blow a bit of gloss at it and see how it looks, I've got a few old cans so I can have a bit of a play. I'll stick up pics of what I do too.

I think one of the things with bad looking black is the difference between poor prep on a good surface and good prep on a bad surface - the former just looks crap while the latter can look ok sometimes.

If it doesn't sit right, I could either do it in matt black which might not look too bad, or I could spend about 18 months with the grinder getting it flat - the problem is if I take off too much metal to flat it back, am I going to expose big flaws in the casting? It's quite 'bubbly' in places... Or just go for something else entirely.

The other thing is that's how it was made, I know I said originality didn't bother me much but is making it too 'perfect' taking it too far? Would it be destroying the character?

More decisions...

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Re: My little JAP

Post by nutgone on Thu Jul 12 2012, 18:08

pauldg wrote:....... I know I said originality didn't bother me much but is making it too 'perfect' taking it too far? Would it be destroying the character?...

I know I'm pretty new here, but I'll shove my 2 pence worth in anyway.

I'm not a big fan of stuff that's "Over-Restored", I've had it drilled into me from an early age, by my dad. He used to tell me tales of blokes bringing old bikes to shows by trailer because they couldn't be ridden, this was because none of the nuts & bolts were done up tight, as they were afraid to crack the paint! Also, I've been told many times that "that car didn't even look that good when it left the factory!" by him, as we've walked around various rallies.

Now I know we're not talking about anything of this kind of level, & some may even say I'm over-restoring my Tarpen (wait until you see the runs in the paintwork! Laughing ) but I do like to see a bit of character in these old engines, they were never meant to be pretty, they just ARE pretty, because they "are what they are" (if that makes any sense).

I can't fault your work though, that carb looks beautiful (& I thought I was a perfectionist), & I'm looking forward to seeing the progress of this little engine (& I'm secretly hoping you'll make a project of that Petter diesel generating set).

All that said, I'm also a big fan of "live & let live" & "each to their own". It would be a boring old world if we all agreed on everything & all did stuff the same.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Thu Jul 12 2012, 20:55

Thanks everyone for the positive comments so far. Wait until you see what I've found for the cowl...

When I started looking at this engine, I was going to use it as a battery charger / jump starter. Something I could just leave in the shed and drag out if and when I needed it... Guess I got a bit carried away. Never mind.

nutgone wrote:I know I'm pretty new here, but I'll shove my 2 pence worth in anyway.

Don't worry about that, you're only a week newer here then me! I'm always open to suggestions, even if I ignore them Laughing

As for the rest, I'm not a fan of 'trailer queens' either - it's got to be functional for me really. Doesn't mean it can't look nice at the same time though.

I don't think I was ever seriously entertaining the idea of grinding it all off smooth, it's just going to take a bit more thought to get a reasonable look to it.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by nutgone on Thu Jul 12 2012, 22:33

I seem to remember JAP liking their metallic paints somewhat, I once had a 2a in metallic blue, it was a very smart looking engine, & you don't see that many metallic painted engines these days.

Douglas motorcycles polychromatic blue or green are nice colours. Even though they are metallic, they still have an "old" look to them.

Just an idea, to throw into the hat.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Thu Jul 12 2012, 22:45

Metallic is certainly an option - it hides a lot without hiding it, if you know what I mean...

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Re: My little JAP

Post by nutgone on Thu Jul 12 2012, 22:55

pauldg wrote:Metallic is certainly an option - it hides a lot without hiding it, if you know what I mean...

My thoughts exactly.

Of course, there's always army colours (it's Olive Drab for UK army, isn't it???) lol!

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Thu Jul 12 2012, 23:03

It was olive-ish under the dirt when I got it.

I'm not all that keen on green most of the time to be honest, plus I really don't think it goes well with polished brass.

We'll see, I'm sure I'll come up with something just so long as I can remember where all the nuts and bolts go.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by nutgone on Fri Jul 13 2012, 09:44

I think I might have a picture somewhere of my old JAP 2a in metallic blue. It was a very smart little engine, will have to see if I can find it.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by stationary stu on Fri Jul 13 2012, 11:21

Can I add you could use high build primer to get rid of some of the minor blemishes, I've used it and I had good results from it.

Also there have been and will continue to be many arguments about engines being over restored, while some go along the lines of wipe it over with an oily rag to give it a working look through a normal brush paint job right up to the mirror finish spray paint jobs. All I can say is it's up to the engine owner to do what he wants and paint the engine the colour he wants. There will always be someone to criticise what you've done but at the end of the day you've bought it and saved it from the scrap man so do what you like with it.

Stu.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by nutgone on Fri Jul 13 2012, 16:18

stationary stu wrote:Can I add you could use high build primer to get rid of some of the minor blemishes, I've used it and I had good results from it.

Also there have been and will continue to be many arguments about engines being over restored, while some go along the lines of wipe it over with an oily rag to give it a working look through a normal brush paint job right up to the mirror finish spray paint jobs. All I can say is it's up to the engine owner to do what he wants and paint the engine the colour he wants. There will always be someone to criticise what you've done but at the end of the day you've bought it and saved it from the scrap man so do what you like with it.

Stu.

Exactly, & I will probably have a complete contrast next to my highly polished Tarpen at the coming rallies, as I don't usually go for the highly polished look, but it is nice to see it.

There's a guy round here who has a pink & purple engine. He bought it & asked his grand-daughter what colours she would like it to be painted, she wanted it pink & purple, so he painted it pink & purple. He has a board made up, explaining all this, I think it's quite nice, not to my taste, but it's certainly different, & he's made a lovely job of it.
He still gets the odd complainer though, telling him it's "not right" Rolling Eyes

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Re: My little JAP

Post by hob on Fri Jul 13 2012, 17:16

pauldg wrote:I'm still pondering what to do...

My issue is the quality of finish - one of the things that's making me think it's ex-ministry, at a time when they didn't bother about cosmetics.





More decisions...

5 min with a disk grinder and you would be amazed what a difference you could make to those miss- aligned castings.

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Fri Jul 13 2012, 17:52

I was considering grinding it all off smooth...

I made the decision to clean it up and leave it as it is, chuck some gloss black engine enamel at it and see how it looks. In a way, I want to keep all the casting imperfections on this one.

I had at it with a wire wheel in the drill and got it all back to bare shiny metal. Then I came indoors to get the camera and picked up the paint by mistake. I had 3/4 of it sprayed before I completely realised what I was doing!

Then it started raining so it was a rush to get it all in, I'll take some pictures when it's a bit dry and I can handle it.

I don't think it looked all that bad - in fact I kind of liked it.

More shortly...

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Re: My little JAP

Post by nutgone on Fri Jul 13 2012, 19:28

hob wrote:

5 min with a disk grinder and you would be amazed what a difference you could make to those miss- aligned castings.

Call me sentimental, but whenever I see all that "extra" metal on old rough castings, I just think it would be a shame to grind it off, especially as it's been there all those years.
I am a bit torn though, with my current project, as the engine cowl is supposed to be bare aluminium, but it's a really rough old sand casting.

Character or Shine? Question Character or shine? Question I personally go for character....

Most of the time. scratch

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Re: My little JAP

Post by pauldg on Fri Jul 13 2012, 22:16

Made a quick start on the oil filler cap - here's before...




After will be when I have an after!

Paul

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Re: My little JAP

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