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Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

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Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by janner on Wed Jul 11 2012, 06:44

Hi all, in my quest to get the little T300 running as smooth as a full Brazilian on Jody Marsh , Last night I stripped what was a perfectly good sparking mag to see whats inside affraid affraid I have a bench full of mag bits now and thus far can see no reason why one side maybe intermittently sparking, so going to give it all a good clean and get it back together tonight as I'm taking it to KOVC rally this weekend and me and Ross Williams are making a new copy exhaust system for it on the rally field out of eberspacher exhaust which he has done to his and a good job it looks and sounds. I think the misfiring I'm hearing is because of the pepperpot exhaust system and having one pot per side as opposed to having a system like the original where the two outlets come out side by side or indeed two into one which would then mask any irregularities , as I cannot find any reason why it should "sound" as if it is misfiring as I have been right through every possibility and is now set up correctly. I did wonder as the Normans are a flat twin and the general rotation of the engine with a single fed carb , maybe one side is being starved and throwing more fuel to one side more than the other !!! but surely the vacuum created to draw the fuel would mean it is sucked up the inlet manifold to whichever is sucking !! anyway, I might heve to post a few pitures and ask a few questions tonight while putting the Wico mag back together Embarassed Thanks Jon

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by stationary stu on Wed Jul 11 2012, 10:21

Jon most twins sound as they have a miss fire to me Crying or Very sad I don't think a slight fuel shortage would cause a miss as the only way to deliver less would be very worn rings as it has no suction and thus no compression. What's it like under load? If you listen to a Subaru on tick over sounds as rough as hell but give it a run up the road sounds like sweet music, possably a flat twin should be running at a bit more then tick over to give 100% performance. Last point I don't know how deeply the engineers of the past went into exhaust development for the engine to run as perfect as it could, so who knows if the original pipes on the Norman are right or wrong, a motor cycle builder today would spend hours and hours checking out the engine to get it's max performance out of the exhaust system on a single cylinder so imagine how much work goes into a twin or a 4 cylinder all pipes the same length etc so maybe your looking for something that's not there or more in your head then an engine fault. If you say you've done everything possable then I don't think there's much more you can do now. I'm sure you've swapped everything from the side that doesn't miss fire to the side that does and found no fault so maybe you'll just have to live with it.
Jon I'm at no way having a go at you or your engine just trying to give an excuse for why it does it so please don't take my comments the wrong way.

Stu.

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by janner on Wed Jul 11 2012, 12:37

one last thing, i,ve ordered three of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310412218314?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1317wt_1037 To make new couplings between the timing wheel and mag drive as the rubber issue on mine is very worn which would mean timing all over the place when running, its another area that I can then dismiss, I havent taken your comments wrongly at all Stu , in fact agree whole heartedly with points made, watch this space for more updates tonight when the mag goes back together lol! lol!

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Workshop update !

Post by janner on Wed Jul 11 2012, 19:00

All going well I think, have found the cause of a possible reason for running issues ! The little black lead with forked end that connects to the kill button and then to the points had a piece of outer plastic coating missing leaving bare wires ! if this had been shorting during running conditions then it might be a cause for the hesitancy, if not, at least the strip down has found something that needed doing and would have been overlooked. Jon

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by janner on Wed Jul 11 2012, 22:05

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ! All refitted to the engine, but no bloody spark now, i set the gap right and checked timing again and is spot on , must have a wire not insulated somewhere or something, calling it a day now, what a bloody ball ache refitting the trip mechanism , my advice to anyone, leave the trip alone if at all possible affraid affraid

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by pauldg on Wed Jul 11 2012, 22:24

Did you use a 'keeper' so as not to lose the magnetism while it was apart?

Hopefully it'll be a much simpler thing than that...

Paul

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by janner on Wed Jul 11 2012, 22:31

Never used a keeper, never even thought about it , i,ll go and check its still magnetised before checking the connections, there is spark at the points but not the plugs !!

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by pauldg on Wed Jul 11 2012, 22:33

If it's sparking 'somewhere' it's not the magnets...

I'd be looking at the condensor connections first.

Paul

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by stationary stu on Thu Jul 12 2012, 11:02

Great news you found the short on the stop wire as if it's not the problem now it could have been in the future. Shame you've lost the HT spark I'm sure it will be something simple that you'll find when you check it over again.

Stu.

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by janner on Thu Jul 12 2012, 19:42

Right , took the front off the mag again tonight looking for clues and can find none !! out it all back together again and refitted the dizzy cap and held the lead against the body of the mag roughly 1/16" away and had a regular spark while held in the vice, refitted to the engine and no spark again, nothing, wth is going on , any ideas folks

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by janner on Thu Jul 12 2012, 22:06

bingo !!! bounce bounce It requires the trip pin to be installed to impulse to make the spark ! I tried it without the trip pin as it was running that way before with some swinging, so now I,m back to timing it to impulse affraid ah well nearly there, least I know it works ok now, cheers jon

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by nutgone on Thu Jul 12 2012, 22:41

Wish my brother's Stuart Turner was that simple, we've been having similar troubles with that.

Have you got any pictures of this to share? I do love a flat twin. I'll have my (well, mine & my brother's) Douglas out before winter, that's gona need a rebuild.

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by stationary stu on Fri Jul 13 2012, 10:10

Great news Jon, glad you've found the problem. Only wish I understood what you mean, I'm lost with mags Crying or Very sad Laughing Laughing

Stu.

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by canuckT300 on Thu Mar 31 2016, 13:40

good day fellow Norman owners, we have a t-300 which was running but we took apart because it was full of sludge. we found the mag with broken parts as well. we would also like to find the original type generator for it. These are a rare breed here(Edmonton, Alberta). we believe it came via the RAF as they had WW11 training facilities in the area. the serial #TE-9920 is stamped on lower left casing as well as mag cover plate. This serial # does not correspond with info we have received so any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Doug

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

Post by Darryl Ovens on Fri Apr 15 2016, 21:49

Re a comment by Stationary Stu, sometime back.
Amoung four stroke engines there are two types of twins; those that are alternate firing, and those that are not.  The twins where both pistons come up to top dead centre at the same time can be (and normally are) alternate firing. This makes them sound very smooth and even, and to my ear, sweet, as the "shots" are all evenly spaced.  All opposed twins with 180 degree cranks have both pistons at "TDC" (or in this case Outer Dead Centre) at the same time, as do some in line twins with zero degree cranks.  In the case of the opposed engines this causes them to be extremely well balanced as one piston and conrod balances the other, and while one is on it's scavenge strokes the other is on its firing strokes.  However the in line twins are much harder to balance, being like singles.  Some in line twins have 180 degree cranks, ie their pistons going in opposite directions so when one is up the other is down, This makes them easier to balance, but it also means that no matter how you arrange the firing order, it ends up as bang, bang, space, space, bang, bang, space,space, ...etc.  sounding for all the world like a 4 cylinder with two cylinders missing, which is what they are.
I have an MWM, (German made), particularly clattery air cooled twin Diesel of the latter type, and to anyone not familiar with those engines, you would swear it was on it's last legs, but that is how they are, right from new, and they do quite respectable hours.

Just don't start one near my house in the early hours, especially from cold!   Shocked Mad

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Re: Norman T300 wico mag rebuild

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