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Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Sat Oct 13 2012, 12:54

OK, prepare yourselves for perhaps the best piece of carpentry you're ever likely to see! I don't want you all getting jealous of my skills when it comes to mounting stationary engines to platforms, but I'm going to show you all anyway, I will explain a little more after the pics....









OK, so as you might have guessed, I got her running! (you've also probably guessed I'm no carpenter, well that was obvious, but this is only a temporary mounting, made from what I had handy).

As you can see from the final picture I got the mag sorted. My mum put me in touch with a local guy (literally less than a mile away), he's pretty hot with magnetos & is into stationary engines & old stuff like that, the only trouble is he is profoundly deaf, so communicating is a little different than normal, but fortunately I've had some experience with this in the past, so it wasn't difficult for us to understand each other.
I've still got the original top for the screened mag, but I see no reason to put it on, as I haven't got a screened lead to go with it, so it would only be a lash-up. The black Bakelite cover looks good for now.
The rest of the mag is the original one which came with the engine, I had put it all together & got it all timed so perfectly I wasn't willing to remove it again. I also applied some Loctite "Stud 'n Bearing Fix" to the end of the cam shaft, so it's not going to be easy to remove the timing cover now, as the cam shaft is stuck in there. But I was more than happy with both the ignition timing & the valve timing (both of which are not marked & required some careful measuring & application of my own "Tipp-Ex" timing marks in various places).

I'm also more than pleased that my condenser worked! My original 150nF capacitor was only giving a weak spark, so I ordered some 330nF 400v capacitors from eBay, which seem to work very well, & I've still got 4 left for the next time a condenser decides to pack up.

I'm getting a little backfiring through the carb, but I've yet to sort out an exhaust or air filter, so until these are sorted I can't expect to do any fine tuning, not that there's really anything to fine tune, the carb's not adjustible, nor is the valve timing now, I can adjust the ignition timing a little by moving the points carrier on the mag though, it's currently advanced to the full 23 Deg, which is the set firing point according to the manual, I reckon I can get about 5 Deg in either direction with the slots on the mag. I'm not likely to move it though as it seems to start pretty well & hasn't attempted to break my wrist yet!

I'm off to an autojumble tomorrow, it's mainly bike stuff but there'll be all-sorts there, maybe I'll pick up something for the exhaust & the air filter there.

Right now I'm just happy to have finally got her started, I just need to remember it's only got flushing oil in the sump! (not that I can run it much, with no exhaust!)

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Sat Oct 13 2012, 13:03

Oh yes, you may notice the fuel tank "borrowed" from my brother's Stuart Turner (well, he shouldn't leave it round here for so long!)

The engine is still in it's red primer, another mistake! It's Hammerite "Special Metals" primer, which is water based & although not bad, it needs a completely clean, oil free base or it won't coat! Which is quite difficult on old engines. An oil based "Etch Primer" or "High-Tack" primer would be a much better proposition, that's the last time I buy anything with the Hammerite name, as I've now been let down by every one of their products I've had the misfortune to buy. It'll be a Rustoleum product next time, or I will try & get my hands on a decent industrial grade etch primer, NOT a water based one!
As you can see in the pics, this "Special Metals" primer has failed to stick to much of the aluminium castings, which should be an easy task for it. Not exactly a sound base for any further top coats.

Still, we live & learn. The "Plasticote" High temperature paint on the head & barrel seems to be doing well, now that is a good paint, one I would recommend to anyone.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by stationary stu on Sat Oct 13 2012, 16:07

Great news you've got it up and running you must be very pleased and also have the mag sorted AND someone to help in the future (lucky git Laughing Laughing ).
Paint is always a bit hit and miss at first (tell me about it Laughing Laughing Laughing ) I managed to pick up some good etch primer at my local car accessory store. I have a tendance to spray everything that's bare metal with red oxide and not had any problems as yet but everyone to there own.
It's funny you should say about rust-Oleum paint as I sent off for a colour chart a few days ago and they sent it on line as a down load. What a waste of time as it all depends on your monitor settings or how good your print is to get the true colour, oh well we live and learn.

Stu.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Sat Oct 13 2012, 20:19

stationary stu wrote:
It's funny you should say about rust-Oleum paint as I sent off for a colour chart a few days ago and they sent it on line as a down load. What a waste of time as it all depends on your monitor settings or how good your print is to get the true colour, oh well we live and learn.

Stu.

How do you think the Tarpen ended up that shade of green??? It was exactly that, using an online colour chart.

It is VERY good paint though, the Rustoleum. Extremely good stuff.

I would love to get hold of some proper old fashioned red oxide, with lead in it, but it's been banned for so long now I doubt there's much of it left.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by stationary stu on Sun Oct 14 2012, 09:30

I thought it would be interesting to know just when lead was banned from paint, later then I thought so maybe more care when rubbing down old engines guys.

Red lead The lead-based pigments (lead tetroxide/calcium plumbate, or "red lead") were widely used as an anti-corrosive primer coating over exterior steelwork. This type of paint might have been applied to garden gates and railings, guttering and downpipes and other external iron and steel work. The 1992 European Union legislation stopped the sale of these types of paint to the general public.

Similar red lead-based compounds were also widely used as a jointing compound in engineering, to form steam- or oil-tight flanged joints in pipework.

Coloured lead paint Until the early 1970s red, yellow, orange and green lead-based pigments (lead chromate) were added to a limited number of decorative coloured gloss and wall paints. Following this non-lead alternatives were used as pigments.

Information supplied from Wikipedia

Stu.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by JONESEY on Sun Oct 14 2012, 16:01

Looking good nothing wrong with the wooden stand ,I make things like that until everything is running properly then make the proper one
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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Sun Oct 14 2012, 16:43

Cheers guys, I'm just more than happy to have it running, finally. & thanks for the paint info Stu, who would've thought it? 1992! I was in my paint suppliers the other week, they had some rather nice industrial grade engine/machine enamel, which was really heavy, I asked the guy if it was due to the zinc content & he said that's exactly what it was, the modern equivalent to lead in paint. It was also nearly £40 a tin, & the tins weren't quite a litre either! Apparently one of the best you can buy, I forget the name, needless to say, I won't be buying any in the near future!

I went to an autojumble today, mainly bike stuff, as I think I already said. I managed to pick up a nice new-old-stock Villiers (I think) petrol tank for £2 & another new-old-stock Villiers (I think) exhaust silencer, both of which will look good on this engine.

I also picked up some very cheap GT85 spray (£2 a tin), it's really nice to have that stuff back again, my brother & me found some old spark plugs as well, & some other bits & bobs, including an old Megger test meter, which will come in handy.
A good day out, all in all. Very Happy

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by stationary stu on Mon Oct 15 2012, 10:17

Sounds as if you found some great bargins. Are auto jumbles or bike jumbles worth going to, I've never bothered myself so don't know what to find, is there a fair amount of spares that would interest me or just the odd bits and then I'd have to scramble about to find?

Stu.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Mon Oct 15 2012, 17:41

All depends on the jumble really. It's the tool stalls I find mist useful, & the stalls selling new stuff, as well as oils & polishes etc etc you get new tools as well as old stuff.

Trouble is most autojumbles are mainly bike or car related, although you will find the odd bit of stationary engine stuff. What I would like is a proper stationary engine autojumble.

I would say give it a try Stu, you never know what you might find. Personally I have to be in the mood though, I was quite enthusiastic before this one & had a really good rummage through stuff. I was looking for an oil filler cap for this engine (the JAP) but the only one I found with the correct thread (& I looked through a lot!) the bloke wanted a tenner for it!!!

You always get your jokers, wherever you go, & you do seem to get a lot of them at autojumbles, but there were also a lot of good ones there as well. That Megger tester cost me £3 & just needs some batteries & the terminals cleaning up. The Villiers tank & exhaust were both brand new old stock, never been used & I got them for £2 each. But yes, you do generally have to rummage about for stuff, but that's all part of the fun. & always haggle, never pay full price for anything at a jumble, unless it's a bargain anyway.

I also bought a tube of Autosol polish, usually quite expensive I found a stall selling it for £3 a tube or 3 for £8 (I think scratch ) I went a few stalls down & they were selling them for £2.50 a tube! That's just typical! I also got a small sheet of metal mesh to make up a silencer insert for the Tarpen, that was from a stall selling bits of metal, there's usually one of those, selling bits of plate, angle, sheet, etc etc. Can be useful, & always nice to handle these things before buying, unlike eBay.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by stationary stu on Tue Oct 16 2012, 10:03

It sounds like it might be worth having a look a round one just to see what they do sell and if the prices are reasonable. There's one every month (I think) about 30 miles from me, it's advertised as a motor bike auto jumble so I'll see if I can find out when it's next on, not sure if it's on over the winter.
Thanks for the info Nuts.

Stu.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Thu Nov 15 2012, 14:51

Right, after the successful first running of this engine at the Hassocks Crank-Up I have decided to give her a final paint job. (Also, I'm so bored, waiting for the varnish to dry on the new Tarpen light board, honestly, it's worse than watching paint dry, & a lot slower!)

I haven't got the money to go splashing out on new paint, this one would have to be Khaki anyway, if it were to be anything like original (or possibly Air Force Blue, but I'm told that very few, if any, engines of the war were painted Air Force colours, everything was Khaki). So, I've decided to go along with what someone else has done. I can't remember who it was, but someone said they had painted an engine with blackboard paint, then gone over it with stove black polish (or Grate polish, as it's sometimes known).

I already have a tin & a half of blackboard paint, so all I needed was the stove black polish, which I've been out & got this morning. There are only a couple of problems. 1- My blackboard paint is water based. The engine has some oil on it from running, so I will have to prepare it carefully, as water based paints don't like any oil or grease whilst applying (fine once they are dry though). 2- the supposed "special metals primer" from Hammerite (seriously, if anyone ever tries to sell you this product, do not buy it, it is rubbish) has failed to stick properly to the aluminium parts of this engine, for some reason it is water based, it is supposed to be a special metals primer, which means it should stick to just about anything, but sadly it will only stick properly to steel, & even this must be absolutely spotless & clean, & even then it's a bit of a lottery. This stuff is completely unsuitable, so much so I am considering writing to Hammerite & asking for my money back!.

luckily last week I bought some proper special metals primer, which is oil based. I have given the engine a good clean down with brake & clutch cleaner, to remove as much of the oil & grease as I possibly can, & I've wire brushed it to get all the loose Hammerite rubbish off. I've just finished giving it a rough coat of the decent primer, as soon as that's dry I can start to go ahead with the blackboard paint.

You may think I'm slightly mad, but I have tested this out on a small piece first. Keen followers of the Tarpen 2 thread will have noticed the rocker box cover, sitting next to my newly varnished lighting board. This has now had 2 coats of blackboard paint & a treatment of the stove black polish & I reckon it looks good.

Will upload a pic later on tonight.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Thu Nov 15 2012, 16:30

Here we go, a finished rocker box cover....







It's got a lovely sheen to it, without being too glossy (sometimes I think modern high-gloss paints are not really in keeping with what these machines would have originally been coated with).

The good news is, when it starts to dull, or gets a minor scratch, I can make it all better with another coat of the polish.

there are a few brass bits on the machine, which I will keep brass & polish up. I won't be painting the magneto or the carb. I would like to paint the flywheel red, but I haven't got any red paint, so I think I will paint it silver for a bit of contrast. Although I'm told many of these old military engines had their flywheels painted white. I do have some white gloss left over, but it's interior paint for woodwork. Think I will stick with silver & see how it goes.

I might end up hating the whole thing, in which case I can just get some khaki & re-do it. All I've paid out for is the tube of black polish, which was £5.27. Not the end of the world. I got the blackboard paint when a cafe I was working in (& living above) closed down a couple of years ago, leaving me with 3 days notice to find another job & somewhere to live! They did a moonlight flit leaving me to deal with the psycho landlord from hell. Basically I took anything of value which wasn't nailed down as compensation Twisted Evil which included the 2 tins of blackboard paint. (don't worry, that wasn't the highlight of my haul from there).

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by stationary stu on Fri Nov 16 2012, 12:32

Nuts you could get away with the household paint as long as your carefull not to spill petrol on it.

Stu.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Sat Nov 17 2012, 23:06

Seems I've been having trouble with all my engines lately, what with the Tarpen refusing to start, the Lister D magneto being seized solid, now a simple idea for a paint job on this engine has just turned into a major chore. Luckily it's a chore I can fit in around other jobs.

The main problem has been getting a water based paint to stick on an oily engine. I gave the whole thing a good clean down with brake & clutch cleaner, as it's good at getting rid of oil & grease residues, but then I decided to give it a coat of primer. A good special metals primer, but an oil based one.

Now, I don't know if I rushed things a bit, maybe I should've given this primer longer to dry, but it seemed dry to me, but still the blackboard paint was having trouble sticking. The first coat just made the engine look like someone had thrown up all over it (the primer is beige, showing through in spots through the blackboard paint), the second coat left a little more on there, but still there were areas where it wouldn't stick & seemed to take ages to dry out.

So this evening I put the heater on & left the engine next to it for any wet spots to dry out. When it was all dry I went over the whole thing again with the brake & clutch cleaner & some clean "blue-roll" tissue paper. Then I gave it a final coat of the blackboard paint, which seems to have stuck really well this time. I'm going to let it dry properly before I apply the black stove polish.

I also took this opportunity to paint the flywheel silver, & placed it in front of the heater again....



I didn't have any of this trouble with the cowling, the rocker box cover or any of the other bits, they've all been painted, thoroughly dried & polished, ready for reassembly....



I've also gone to town on the brass bits, they've been treated to large amounts of Autosol polish & all the small bits have been given the battery acid treatment (which is more labour intensive than it sounds, but still worth it IMO), they should contrast the black very well (along with the yellow HT lead)....



Oh yes, the carb got another polish-up as well. All i need to do now is remove any black paint from the more decorative parts of the engine (I wasn't very careful, so it needs removing from the brass plate & the magneto Rolling Eyes ) then I can give the engine a coat of black polish & get it all back together to see how it looks.

It'll probably look bloody awful & I'll have to get some Khaki, but at least I've tried. We need to get some Khaki for the Douglas anyway, unless we paint that in desert sand colours.

Keeping me busy though Very Happy

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by matt86 on Sun Nov 18 2012, 01:48

i think we may have another abes in the making with the stove blackener Laughing

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by stationary stu on Sun Nov 18 2012, 11:49

Nuts you were messed about with the paint, it could be put down to anything, maybe just a bit of damp even. A little tip... I used to use that blue paper roll but found that if I used the roll with thinners the blue dye would come out.

Stu.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Sun Nov 18 2012, 18:19

Not sure my paintwork is up to Abes standards.

I had a look at it this morning & decided to get it polished up & back together. I've been trying to get a decent photo of it, but they all seem to go a bit blurred & none of them seem to look as good as it does in the flesh. So there may be a lot of pics here, but I couldn't choose between them, see what you think....















I wasn't so sure once it was finished, but it's growing on me, & I've gone to a lot of trouble with some of the detailing. I think I will leave it & see how it weathers. I like the idea of being able to go over it with polish when it weathers, dulls or gets a slight knock/scratch.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by nutgone on Sun Nov 18 2012, 18:21

Yeah, I think you need to see it in the flesh. Neutral

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

Post by stationary stu on Sun Nov 18 2012, 18:55

Looks like you've done a good job to me, just keep it polished up now and it should last for years.

Stu.

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Re: Nutgone's little JAP (JAP Model 3)

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