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Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Fri Nov 02 2012, 11:53

Well Nuts that's a first for me to see, someone dismanteling an engine in the boot of there car, think I would have put some cardboard down first. Laughing
I can see this engine being up and running in no time no matter how many times you try to tell us your in no hurry Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Fri Nov 02 2012, 15:13

stationary stu wrote:
I can see this engine being up and running in no time no matter how many times you try to tell us your in no hurry Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

Funny that, I've been working on it today & was thinking exactly the same thing Laughing

Although this one is encased in a good layer of crud. I think most of my time is going to be spent cleaning.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by Ianhw77k on Sat Nov 03 2012, 11:43

MY GT85!!!!!!!!!
Bring your own next time, you get far too trigger happy with that stuff!

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Sat Nov 03 2012, 11:57

lol! lol! lol! he caught you Nuts.

Wow there's a fair bit of carbon build up on the valve seats, I'm sure once that's removed it will help.

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Sat Nov 03 2012, 12:09

Right, another day, another dozen photos. I won't bore you with them all, but for those interested I will be keeping a separate Photobucket album for this particular restoration, as I always do. You can find it here....

http://photobucket.com/nutgonestarpen

OK, as usual I've forgotten to take many "Before" pics, but got plenty of "After" ones (it's something I'm working on). Yesterday I mainly concentrated on the engine. The previous evening I took the carb apart & put all the bits in a jam jar of 2 stroke mixture to soak.

So, now comes the hard part, I need to get that pesky flywheel off. Having had trouble with these in the past I knew what was required, or at least I thought I did. I stupidly left my harmonic puller at Ian's place, but I have an old double V belt pulley, which I bolted to the flywheel, hoping to use a 3 legged puller on. This didn't work as the spindle of the puller wasn't long enough. But, the threads on this flywheel, which the starter dog is bolted on with, are different to the other one. It looks like someone has had similar problems in the past & has opened out the holes & re-tapped them. Fortunately I have some long bolts which fit these threads, which is fantastic! If only I had the harmonic puller to go with them!!! Mad

But I do have an old Mini flywheel puller. It's not quite right but should do the trick. I drilled some holes in it, in roughly the right places, then bolted it up & started tightening it down. After a few smacks with a hammer & some more tightening down the flywheel started to move. I managed to bend all 3 bolts, but that's not important, the threads are fine & the flywheel is off, undamaged! cheers ....



The flywheel was quite badly corroded. I spent some time with 3 different grades of abrasive paper & some Autosol polish. I also took all the magneto parts off the back plate, put most of them into a jar of 2 stroke (all except the condenser & coil) & cleaned up the magneto back-plate (which had a layer of crud on the back so thick I had to scrape it off & throw it in the bin!)....




I then turned my attention to the carb. I put the brass bits into a jar of battery acid (anyone trying this at home, only leave them in for about 2 hours, definitely no more than 4 hours. They will still look dirty until they are rinsed & wire brushed with a BRASS wire brush. Always use plenty of water & were gloves & eye protection!) then I set about cleaning up the rest of the carb. The float chamber has some bad scale inside, but I got the worst of that off with the Dremmel & a small sanding drum attachment. The float is a bit bashed about (the bottom seems to have caved in, & that's not the first time I've seen this) but it still floats, so that's good....



I also removed the head, barrel, piston & gudgeon pin. The piston was quite badly coked up, as were the rings & grooves. So I set about cleaning these up as well (using the 3 strips of thin metal to carefully remove the piston rings without breaking them)....



I've also had a little play with the governor coil & it seems to be working. I won't know for sure until I get the thing running. It looks like someone's had a go at it in the past though, & there was a suspicious bit of stiff wire around the carb, so maybe it worked, maybe it didn't. All I know is there is continuity in the coil, which is more than I can say for my other Tarpen.

Next (today) I've got to start cleaning the engine bottom end, it's filthy. I may split the crank cases, but I would rather not if I don't have to (it is very black in there though, but there's no play anywhere, so maybe just do my best to clean it up as is).

I've also got to clean/de-coke the exhaust ports & clean & reassemble the magneto parts (perhaps I should test the condenser as well, it's nice to see an original one & would be a shame to lose it, although I may be able to solder a modern capacitor inside it).

So I suppose I should get on with it!

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Sat Nov 03 2012, 12:10

Ianhw77k wrote:MY GT85!!!!!!!!!
Bring your own next time, you get far too trigger happy with that stuff!

Actually NO! It was MY GT85. I keep a can in the car. But I'll be sure to use yours next time. Twisted Evil

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by Ianhw77k on Sat Nov 03 2012, 18:26

nutgone wrote:
Ianhw77k wrote:MY GT85!!!!!!!!!
Bring your own next time, you get far too trigger happy with that stuff!

Actually NO! It was MY GT85. I keep a can in the car. But I'll be sure to use yours next time. Twisted Evil

I'll be checking, I mark the cans and weigh them Rolling Eyes

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Sat Nov 03 2012, 18:58

Ianhw77k wrote:
nutgone wrote:
Ianhw77k wrote:MY GT85!!!!!!!!!
Bring your own next time, you get far too trigger happy with that stuff!

Actually NO! It was MY GT85. I keep a can in the car. But I'll be sure to use yours next time. Twisted Evil

I'll be checking, I mark the cans and weigh them Rolling Eyes

I don't want your smelly old GT85 anyway! Mine's much better! Mine's so good it's almost GT86!

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Sun Nov 04 2012, 12:29

Now now boys no bickering or I'll not let you play with your engines Laughing Laughing Laughing

Nuts your doing a great clean up job, the engine should run like new when your finished.

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Mon Nov 05 2012, 11:32

Well, he started it! Crying or Very sad

Anyway, on with the resto. Saturday I was busy once again, spending much of the day in the workshop. I decided, against the wishes & advice of my dad & my brother, to split the crank cases, as it was all very dirty inside. They came apart quite easily, but the shaft was stuck in one side by the ring cam for the points....



This appears to have been pressed on, but I managed to get it off with the help of a copper mallet, in hindsight I probably should have heated it up, as there are no rubber seals on the crank cases, it relies entirely on bronze bushes to seal the crank case. Anyway, it came off & I had the thing in bits. Not so difficult after all, & it badly needed cleaning in there....



I also thought I should clean up the magneto & get that back together, so on went the soldering iron whilst I set to all the little bits with small wire brushes, my home made easing mixture (which I also use for cleaning, usually followed by a rinse off with brake & clutch cleaner). I cleaned up all the bits & decided I didn't like the look of the small wire going to the points, so I soldered a new one on (I wanted braided wire but didn't have any small enough, it's not like it will be seen anyway). I got it all back together & soldered on a new length of HT lead as well....



I tested the condenser & it's reading fine. I've been told that the old mica condensers will last practically for ever, someone I know says he's virtually never found a dud one, but the old paper ones are useless, he reckons even new-old-stock paper condensers don't work. This is a mica one (I think), whatever it is it seems to be working (I have a special capacitor tester).

So, most of the rest of my time was spent cleaning. I sprayed the crank cases, crank shaft, cylinder head, barrel & various other bits in engine degreaser & left them to soak for a while, then went out with a couple of buckets of hot soapy water & brushed them all off. I find the brake & clutch cleaner is quite good for drying stuff off, so I used that & some clean rag & soon had it all looking a lot better....



I cut some new gaskets for the crank case joint & the cylinder barrel base, which I thought was a little premature as I had no idea how I was going to get that cam back onto the crank shaft. Then I got even more ahead of myself & gave the head & barrel a coat of high temp black!....



Last job of the evening was to take a look at the cooling fan bearing. It's not looking good, but should be OK. I hope....


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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Mon Nov 05 2012, 11:58

Looking good Nuts I wonder how you can remember what your up too you doing bits everywhere. Looks as if you've got the ignition system sorted , I wish you lived closer I could give you lots or electrical work to do LOL.

Keep up the great work and another interesting thread, if you do a thread as good on the Lister D it could be a great bible for all newbie Lister D owners.

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Mon Nov 05 2012, 12:37

Cheers Stu. I also got a fair bit done last night (Sunday) after the crank-up at Hassocks....

I started on the fuel tank, attacking it with a wire brush attachment on a mains powered drill, then gave it a coat of primer (I can't believe I never bothered with a drill powered wire brush before, they're so quick!)....



Then I thought, with nothing else on my mind, I should try to get the engine bottom half back together. So just as a little experiment I decided to heat up the little cam & see if that would make it easier to get on. The trouble is it needs to go on in exactly the right position, as the end of the flywheel key sits in the little slot, but it's such a tight fit you couldn't hope to adjust it once on there....



So, I heated it until it started to go blue (I don't want to "normalise" it, as this would lose the hardness required to put up with years of running against the points). I set the shaft up, with the correct crank case in place, in the vice & had a go. It slipped on there easy, pretty much fell on! & I was able to turn it & get the flywheel key in to locate it....



As you can see it has turned blue. I think this was because I sprayed brake & clutch cleaner on it to cool it down, I don't think I got it too hot (I hope I didn't! Embarassed ).

So, with that I thought I would get the other crank case on, with the new gasket, & get it all tightened down. I let my dad & Ian talk me into using some Wellseal on the joint faces, as it's supposed to be the best stuff, & it's not a head joint I suppose. I put a VERY thin layer on each face, wiped off any excess on the inside, let it dry & placed the gasket on. Then I made up the 2 halves & did up the bolts.

Just to make sure it was all tightened down properly I put the crank case onto the cast iron engine mounts & clamped this down to the wotkbench.

Then I decided to get the piston, barrel & head on too. I had to heat the piston slightly, as the pin was a very tight fit. This can be done in boiling water, but I did it with a blow lamp, being very careful not to get it too hot & damage it. Then I treated the barrel base & it's mating face to a microscopic layer of wellseal & put my newly cut gasket on there. A drop of oil on the big end & a smear of oil inside the barrel, had a little trouble getting the rings compressed by hand, but soon got it on there & bolted down.

Then came the head. These have a simple copper ring, which I've never been able to get out to anneal, & I think if I were to get it out it would probably be almost destroyed in the process, so I leave them in there. I decided to "Lap" the head to the gasket though, with a little fine valve grinding paste....




As you can see it's a circular joint, so very easy to do. Just a few strokes was enough. I stuffed the rag down the hole to stop any paste getting in there. As we all probably know, grinding paste is definitely not something you want in an engine, & whenever used you should always make every effort to remove any trace of the stuff. I used brake & clutch cleaner & some clean rag. I bolted the head back on & thought about calling it a night....



Then I turned my attentions to the flywheel. This was a complete *insert swearword here* to get back on. I even had to get the puller back out, complete with bent bolts, & take it back off to see what the trouble was. I cleaned out the key ways & tried again, but it was still a real struggle. I even gently heated it up with the blow lamp, being careful as I didn't want to damage anything inside.

Eventually I got it on there, bolted on the starter dog & made off the end of the HT lead. I'm glad to say there's a good healthy spark there too....



So, it seems I'm racing ahead with this one as well. Maybe I should have bought another engine yesterday at the crank-up (I very nearly did, even agreed a price & everything, but was talked out of it at the last minute). Here's my next few bits....



The rest of it is pretty much cleaning, prep & paintwork. Not my most favourite of jobs, but satisfying nonetheless.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Mon Nov 05 2012, 13:04

I knew once you started you'd have it done in a crack, nice work Nuts another great resoration.

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Mon Nov 05 2012, 16:35

Well, I've been doing other things today, helping my dad fit a new canvas hood to his sidecar.

Then Ian came over & we eventually ended up in the workshop. We were looking at the Tarpen engine, clamped to the bench, when Ian announced he had some 2 stroke in the car, my dad decided it would be a good idea to see if she runs....



I dunno Rolling Eyes you get 3 blokes together, they've just got to make some noise! & didn't she crackle! We just filled up the float chamber & ran her up for about 30 seconds or so, but she fired up pretty quickly, only about 3 or 4 pulls.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by Ianhw77k on Mon Nov 05 2012, 22:33

Yeah, that was fun Twisted Evil Laughing

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Tue Nov 06 2012, 12:42

Great news she has life again, well done Nuts.

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Wed Nov 07 2012, 11:01

I was busy with other stuff again yesterday, finishing off a permanent electrical connection to the workshop & collecting the Lister D for Ian's boys. I still managed to get a few bits done though, & this just goes to show some of the lengths I go to during a restoration. I've usually got a jar of old 2-stroke, or petrol/Diesel mixture or something similar on the bench & some small wire brushes. Usually every nut & bolt gets a good clean with this, & rinse off with some brake & clutch cleaner or wiped with clean rag. Then every thread has a smear of grease. This goes on right across the whole engine, within reason of course, but some say I go overboard with this stuff, I call it thorough.

Last night I thought I'd clean up that double socket. I really didn't want to go mad with it, but when I took the covers off I knew it was going to have to go right down to component parts (good job I'm not charging by the hour with this one!) The holes for the pins were completely filled up with crap.

But, as there are 2 sockets it gave me a good opportunity for a "Before & After" picture....



I even got round to getting the paint brushes out....





Hopefully it's all touch dry this morning, so I can get it all back together & stored safely somewhere, ready for reassembly sometime.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Wed Nov 07 2012, 11:08

Nice clean up, you sure put some hours into getting it all cleaned up, I bet most of the time that's all it needs to get some things working again.
Well now what are you going to do, crack on with the Tarpen and get it finished so you can concentrate on the boys D or continue doing them along side each other.

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Wed Nov 07 2012, 11:28

stationary stu wrote:Nice clean up, you sure put some hours into getting it all cleaned up, I bet most of the time that's all it needs to get some things working again.
Well now what are you going to do, crack on with the Tarpen and get it finished so you can concentrate on the boys D or continue doing them along side each other.

Stu.

TBH Stu I'm not sure. I'm thinking I'll crack on with the Tarpen, especially in the evenings. The Lister is over at Ian's place, which is 15 miles away & we're hoping to keep it a secret until christmas, but it would be nice to see about getting her running before then.

I think I would like to have the Tarpen done by christmas, & safely stored away for next year, leaving me free to do a bit with the boys on the Lister. Who knows, I might even have another project by then, & there's all the others which are running but need finishing off as well. The JAP needs something to run, the Homelite needs the fuel tank sealing & Ian's got to get on & finish that Briggs. Then we've got a Douglas over my sister's place, still rotting away. So maybe I won't be buying any more projects.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Wed Nov 07 2012, 15:47

I've done a wee bit more on this today, but I've kind of painted myself into a corner, as I can go no further now, for a little while....

I started off with the wire brush attachment on the drill again. I cleaned up the wheels, ready for painting....



It's so quick, that wire brush attachment. I think I will buy one for the angle grinder, as I'm told they're even quicker (although probably a lot more dangerous as well).

Then I had to bring the paint inside & warm it up on a radiator, as I had some mixing to do. I wasn't happy with the bright green I used on the other Tarpen, although I've grown used to it over time, I realise it's not everyone's cup of tea & it's not close enough to the original light green, so I put a small amount in a container, to keep as a touch-up for the other Tarpen & decided to add a little black to the rest of the tin, to make a new colour for this one. Then I painted the tank (after a LOT of mixing, stirring & shaking)....



Here's the original light green next to it, shown by the lid of the tin (now marked up to avoid confusion), hopefully you can see some difference....



&, as I had fresh wet paint in the workshop, so I knew I wouldn't be able to do any more prep in there today, I thought I'd go all out & paint the wheels black. This Rustoleum paint is self undercoating & has good corrosion inhibitors (much better than Hammerite), so no real need for a primer, just straight on with it....



So, that's about it for today. It'll easily take until tomorrow to be even touch dry in these cold conditions. Looks like I'm having a night off then.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by Ianhw77k on Wed Nov 07 2012, 20:44

You could always have a tinker with my Stuart Turner Wink

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Thu Nov 08 2012, 22:39

Ianhw77k wrote:You could always have a tinker with my Stuart Turner Wink

I will get round to that at some point, I expect. Meanwhile....

Have you ever had something which seems so dirty you think it'll never ever be clean again??? (I'm not talking about your minds here chaps)

Well, this is how I felt today with the Tarpen chassis/exhaust system....



Doesn't look so bad in the picures, does it? But My God I've never had such a disgusting clean up job. This whole engine was caked in a layer of grease & dirt which needed scraping off with a small decorator's filling knife before I could even think about wire brushes & degreasers, but this bottom piece was the worst I've ever known. I'm still not completely satisfied, but I'm probably being picky.

On the plus side, I never thought I would be painting this early on in the project....



This time I decided to paint the main engine cowl. I'm still unsure as to weather or not it was originally painted. I've been told it was left bare aluminium, & this may well be true for the early pre-war ones, but the casting's aren't as good on this one, & I'm pretty sure it's a later one. It would've been a lot of work to get it nice & shiny, so I thought I would paint it instead, after a layer of special metals primer (what with it being aluminium)....





So, the rest of the evening has been spent cleaning & polishing. I thought I'd better have a go at the fuel pipe, which was very hard work....



But worth it in the end. I also cleaned up the last few nuts & bolts & added my new petrol tap plunger, which I bought today....



Once the paint is dry all these bits can go back over Ian's place & I can get the generator over here. All that's left now is the generator, the exhaust pipe & the handle. The generator is the biggest job of the remaining bits, I'm still not sure how far to go with it, after all the trouble I had removing the fan belt pulley on the last one, I don't want to have to go buying new pulleys at over £20 a throw, I mean it's a good price, but it shouldn't be necessary. I just want to make sure it's done right though, even though I'll probably end up selling this one, I want the next owner to know it's been properly restored, not just repainted & flogged on. (obviously I can show them this thread, & if they're not already a member, then they will be after that Very Happy )

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by stationary stu on Fri Nov 09 2012, 11:15

More great work nuts, that chassis doesn't look as if it's been cleaned since it was new. As you say not a lot more to do with the engine but you know where you went wrong with the generator the last time with the pulley so maybe take a little longer and have a few more patients this time and you could save yourself some money. Get your GT85 on to it now and give it time to work in is the only advice I can give you.

Stu.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by nutgone on Fri Nov 09 2012, 23:30

Cheers Stu, I might just leave the pulley on there this time, I will have to wait & see what the genny bearings feel like. I don't want to disturb anything unnecessarily.

I did a little more today, basically just assembled the bits I've got, as far as I can. I packed the cooling fan bearing with grease & re-cut the thread on the end of the spindle, someone had jammed some odd nut on there, I managed to re-cut it with a Whitworth die & put a nut from my big tin (what I like to call my "Nuttery") on there. Then I took each wheel off & packed the bearings with grease (like my other Tarpen, these wheels also have large caged needle roller bearings inside, which are all free & moving. I didn't see much point in splitting the rims this time). I put them on & bent/cut the split pins in place. I also mounted the governor & throttle linkage guards & bolted on the metal flange & canvas coupling on the output end of the crank shaft.

Whilst doing all this I had the paint out with a 1/2" brush, touching up all the nuts, bolts & any bits I'd missed. She's looking pretty good so far....





I don't think it will fit in the boot of my car now, so I will have to wait for Ian to come over. He can bring me the rest of the bits (handle & generator, with tank mountings attached) & take the finished bits to put in his garage, ready for reassembly. Meanwhile I need to order a new fan belt & find some of that Plasticote high-temp black paint, as I've run out & need some for the exhaust.

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

Post by kevjhnsn on Sat Nov 10 2012, 03:49

nutty matt
looking good again mate
its like youve done one of these before Very Happy
plasticote and a fanbelt wont be to hard to locate mate
keep it up and youll be shopping for a third one to do study
kev

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Re: Here We Go Again! Tarpen Take 2

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