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First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Mon Nov 19 2012, 12:13

I wasn't necessarily talking about stationary engines Ian, I was more thinking about all the cars you've broken over the years. Very Happy

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by Ianhw77k on Mon Nov 19 2012, 19:58

nutgone wrote:I wasn't necessarily talking about stationary engines Ian, I was more thinking about all the cars you've broken over the years. Very Happy

That's what has taught me to take my time now Embarassed

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Tue Nov 20 2012, 22:34

Well someone's been busy this afternoon/evening....

Yep, that's right, it's me (again). I got all my other little jobs done in the workshop & decided to have another go at this pesky magneto. I managed to get the top screw out using Kev's method, which worked well, but the bottom 2 screws were refusing to budge, so I drilled the heads off them, then set to knocking the rotor out.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, after a lot of cleaning (the fake Dremmel earning its keep again) I ended up with this....





That's right, despite some strange coil readings I now have a fully working, & sparking magneto (well, it works when wound by hand & with the cordless drill). I'm pretty chuffed with myself Very Happy

So, then I thought I'd better turn my attentions to the carb. I emptied all the bits out of the jam jars full of fluid & set to cleaning all of them, then I cleaned up the body as best I could & made sure everything was as free & easy as possible.

So, here's the product of a good evenings work....



Very happy. Smile

Now we just need to free off the mag chain (I've got it soaking, there just a few stubborn links left now) & see if we can get some compression (I've asked Ian to squirt something down the barrel, see if that does anything). We know the tank holds fuel, as there's some very smelly stale petrol still in there.

If we manage to get some compression we'll just need to sort out a starting handle & hopefully we can have her running. bounce

I don't want to go too far, I know the sump & internals will need cleaning out, but that's all for the boys to do, I just want to know it runs before we take it apart, which I thought wouldn't be possible, but is now looking increasingly likely.

Does anyone know, off hand, the diameter of the starting handle dog-shaft??? I've got some old steel barrel (pipe) & am thinking about making one of my own for now.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by stationary stu on Wed Nov 21 2012, 11:11

Cracking work Nuts, I didn't think you'd get the mag to ever work again. Shame your so far away I've got lots of mags that need your type of attention. Can't see any reasons why it won't fire up now. I think Nuts will need tied down when the nephews start work on this engine as he'll want it done in record time again, he'll be getting the nephews to live outside in a tent so he can work late on a night as he normally does Laughing Laughing Laughing

The flywheel side of the crankshaft is 1 1/2" not sure if the other ends the same but I'm sure someone will know.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Sat Nov 24 2012, 23:42

Cheers Stu. I got Ian to measure the handle hole for me, my stock of metal isn't great, sadly I didn't have anything, but he popped round today with the right stuff, some 1" steel barrel.

So this evening I got cracking, & with the help of some left over sidecar fixings I managed to make this....





It's late now, so I'll explain all about how I did it in the morning, Just hope it fits, I'll be over there Tuesday with all the bits to see if I can get it started. bounce bounce bounce

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by stationary stu on Sun Nov 25 2012, 12:43

Well it's looks as if it will do the job but it looks to be very heavy.

Stu.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Sun Nov 25 2012, 14:40

It's not too bad weight wise, as it's all hollow tube & split fittings. But, when we do eventually get access to a welder & some plate it can all easily be taken apart again & done properly.

I started with just a straight piece of the tube, with a hole already drilled straight through. I cut it just above the hole then cut out the dog teeth with some careful hacksaw action, after marking it free hand from looking at the picture in an eBay listing!

Then I got the dremmel out, with a selection of bits....



After a bit of work I had tidied up the end reasonably well....



But I wanted it to look better than that, so dressed it with a file, then I did a little sanding, with the dremmel, then by hand with medium wet & dry paper, then (believe it or not) I actually polished it with some Autosol polish & a miniature polishing mop (I know, I know, but I was bored & wanted to go that extra step)....



So, i had the starter dog shaft, but it's not much good without a crank & a handle, so I had a fag & started thinking scratch
What did I have in stock???

Then I remembered a plastic box with left over sidecar mounting bits in it, so I got them all out & had another think (this is getting tiring now, all this thinking). I eventually settled on a design, but I would need to squash the end of the starter dog shaft flat, & the vice alone wasn't up to the job, so out came the blow lamp, & in a series of "heating-squashing-more heating-more squashing" I managed to get it almost there, just a little filing & it would fit.

I found my longest bolt in my nuttery & a piece of old tube (from a long ago broken camping chair) to go over it, drilled the holes where needed & put it all together. here are some detail shots....











So, when together it looks like this....



But if I find the joint between the cank & the starter dog shaft gets in the way (which it shouldn't) I can loosen off 2 nuts & turn things around to go like this....



It's also all adjustable, the length of the crank can be extended or shortened, all the angles can be changed, & the handle will eventually be changed for something a bit larger in diameter (in fact I think i will do that now, as the camping chair tube is just a little too small for me).

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by stationary stu on Mon Nov 26 2012, 12:09

Lets hope it's up to the job and doesn't bend or snap as your using it and someone end up in a heap in the corner Laughing Laughing Laughing also make sure it is free enough to come of once the engine fires up and the handle is not left on spinning around with the engine as they do tend to travel a long way when they come off as some members have found out in the past. Very Happy

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Mon Nov 26 2012, 12:56

stationary stu wrote:Lets hope it's up to the job and doesn't bend or snap as your using it and someone end up in a heap in the corner Laughing Laughing Laughing also make sure it is free enough to come of once the engine fires up and the handle is not left on spinning around with the engine as they do tend to travel a long way when they come off as some members have found out in the past. Very Happy

Stu.

You're quite right Stu, I forgot to say it will be fully tested & inspected to make sure it fits without grabbing or snatching anywhere & make sure it comes off as it should.
I don't like handle start engines, give me a rope or kick-start any day. Handles are/can be dangerous & when they bite they bloody hurt! So all measures will be taken to make sure this one is safe to use. Might even follow up with a couple of pics of what I do to test it & where I'm looking for things to be right.
I will be removing the metal bit to have a good look & make sure the dog teeth are engaging properly as well, especially as it's home made. There may well still be some final dressing to do on the starter dog bit.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by ells engines on Mon Nov 26 2012, 13:14

This might seem too obvious but why didn't you put a wanted ad up for a lister d starting handle?

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Mon Nov 26 2012, 15:33

ells engines wrote:This might seem too obvious but why didn't you put a wanted ad up for a lister d starting handle?

I did, but it's a reverse rotation engine, so they're a bit harder to come by, no one had one on here, & they're over £20 on eBay. Might still have to bite the bullet & buy one.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Tue Nov 27 2012, 19:00

HA HA!!! Ian broke something today! He broke the brass tap which empties the hopper! lol! lol! lol!

Then I went one better & put my car in a ditch on the way home! Crying or Very sad

But we have been working on the Lister today, perhaps Ian will fill you all in. If not I'll come back later & catch you all up. I'm just going to have a stiff drink first.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by stationary stu on Wed Nov 28 2012, 11:31

Sounds as if your trying to out do each other by who can have the worst accident of the day Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Wed Nov 28 2012, 12:29

It was terrible Stu, my whole car's life flashed before me!

But seriously, I was very lucky. All the rain we've had lately has washed a lot of crap (mainly leaf litter) into the roads & much of it gets deposited on the bends/corners. It was the 4th time I'd been down that lane & I wasn't exactly in a hurry, just the back end tried to overtake the front & I wasn't expecting it.

Fortunately I managed to keep it pointing in the right direction, I missed a big tree & several fence posts, but I was well & truly stuck. A bloke in a 4X4 was the next car to drive past, I dug out my old tow rope & he helped me out. Good to know we still have some good Samaritans on the roads. I stuck a small denomination note in his hand & said "Cheers, get yourself a drink", he wouldn't have it though, but I insisted, one good turn deserves another after all..


Anyway, never mind that! The Lister....

We managed to get some compression in there, it was a stuck exhaust valve. Now, I forgot a couple of things, I forgot the carb gaskets, it originally had 2 rather thick gaskets on it, dunno why, but it did. I made a thin one up from some scrap card lying about & put it on.

I also forgot the split link pieces for the mag chain so I had to run back & get them, an hours round trip! (which is why I'd driven that road so many times in one day, & this time I really was in a hurry, but no accidents scratch ) So we got the mag chain on, but it's extremely sloppy, I fail to see how it can be accurately timed like that. Maybe it was stretched after turning the engine over with a seized mag???

So, we put it all together & gave the tank a good clean out, but we couldn't get her running. I was setting the timing initially by looking in the crank case (we had the inspection plate off) but then I re-set it by holding a thin screwdriver in the plug hole & feeling for the little lump on top of the piston, but it's easily missed.

So, I'm now wondering a few things:
1) Is the mag chain causing the lack of starting?
2) Or could it be the old condenser? We are getting a spark, & it seems to be a good one, so maybe the condenser is OK?
3) Is it fuel starvation? The plug seems to stay relatively dry, although you'd think we were flooding the barrel. Was there supposed to be 2 thick carb gaskets for a reason? Maybe it's sucking in air at the flange joint.

Also, can anyone tell me how many turns the mixture screw should be out before the stop screws are put in? I took the screws out & undid the thumbscrew about 4 or 5 turns, it seemed to pop then, but wouldn't catch on.

It did catch on once though, after we re-set the timing for the 2nd time. It was the first time it did anything, it fired with a bang & flames shot out the exhaust, then it carried on running for maybe 5 seconds, but seemed to run out of fuel. But could that be the condenser in the mag? I'm not sure.

Anyway, the whole thing needs to come apart at some point, but it would be nice to present a running restoration project to the boys on christmas day, so if anyone's got any ideas I'd love to hear them.

I didn't take any pictures at all yesterday, Ian did though, so he'll have to post them (I thought he might've done this write-up)

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by Foden on Wed Nov 28 2012, 14:42

The mixture screw is normally turned right down and then slackened off enough to get the screws in, it shouldn't need unscrewing by more than a turn or two. The mag just needs some more shims under it to take up the slack, though if it is knackered (technical term!) it would need chucking over your left shoulder and a new one fitted. Smile

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Wed Nov 28 2012, 15:20

I think the mag itself is fine, but I've ordered a new chain. This one still had a very stiff link which I couldn't free off & it was pretty far gone, so we would need a new one sooner or later anyway.

I'll take some more carb gaskets with me next time & a couple of spare condensers, see if that makes any difference.

My handle needs some attention as well. The metal barrel is a bit too soft for the job, I might see if I can harden it up, but without a furnace it's not going to be easy.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by stationary stu on Thu Nov 29 2012, 11:09

I made a shim out of aluminium to tighten the mag chain as it had about 6 shims under it but it still runs ok with the slack chain as I kept the rotation side tight when fitting it, now I know that needs another chain ( I did try another chain I had but it wasn't that much better).
I don't think the amount of gaskets on the carb would make any difference to the running of the engine in the case of a D.

Stu.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by Ianhw77k on Thu Nov 29 2012, 23:06

I wonder if the exhaust valve isn't seating properly. I know we're getting a bit of compression but maybe a little leak there could be causing problems?

That mag chain is seriously knackered, you'd need a mountain of shims to tighten that up! Shocked


Pictures were on my new fangled mobile and I don't know how to get them on to photobucket, the technology is far too advanced for me Embarassed
I'll check the camera later as I'm sure there were some on there as well.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by stationary stu on Fri Nov 30 2012, 12:43

Ianhw77k wrote:
Pictures were on my new fangled mobile and I don't know how to get them on to photobucket, the technology is far too advanced for me Embarassed
I'll check the camera later as I'm sure there were some on there as well.

Ian I've loads of pics on my camera and can't find how to download them or even email them on so your not alone there Laughing Laughing Laughing

Not long to Christmas guys so come on get it sorted to make 2 boys very happy on Christmas day and not forgetting making your sons/nephews very happy also Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Mon Jan 14 2013, 22:37

I've seen something on eBay which has given me an idea for a trolley. It's a barrow type of trolley, so only needs 2 wheels, but the engine is placed over the wheels, creating a kind of "point of balance" arrangement. I like it. Might be an idea for this one maybe, especially as we only have one pair of cast iron wheels, & I haven't got any plans right now to get any more, as money is too tight & wheels are too expensive (well, cast iron ones are quite expensive, especially as most of them have only come off sack barrows & the like).

Or, we could make a barrow type trolley, but with cast iron wheels at one end, & hidden castors at the other, then it would steer.

I dunno, i just saw this & liked the idea....


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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by Abes on Mon Jan 14 2013, 22:49

Why not knock up a Lister barrow type two wheeled trolley got a set of plans if you need them

nutgone wrote:I've seen something on eBay which has given me an idea for a trolley. It's a barrow type of trolley, so only needs 2 wheels, but the engine is placed over the wheels, creating a kind of "point of balance" arrangement. I like it. Might be an idea for this one maybe, especially as we only have one pair of cast iron wheels, & I haven't got any plans right now to get any more, as money is too tight & wheels are too expensive (well, cast iron ones are quite expensive, especially as most of them have only come off sack barrows & the like).

Or, we could make a barrow type trolley, but with cast iron wheels at one end, & hidden castors at the other, then it would steer.

I dunno, i just saw this & liked the idea....


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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Mon Jan 14 2013, 23:14

Abes wrote:Why not knock up a Lister barrow type two wheeled trolley got a set of plans if you need them

I might just well end up doing that Abes. I like this idea, but it's a kind of counterbalance trolley, so really needs a permanently mounted piece of driven equipment to counter the weight (IE: the compressor in that case), we'll just be mounting the engine on its own with this one, I think.

Might give you a shout for those plans in the future, we've got a while to go yet, but it'll be easier to work on if it's mounted to something.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by stationary stu on Tue Jan 15 2013, 12:03

I can't see on the pic if it has a center wheel on the front as it looks off balance to me if it only uses the 2 back wheels.

Stu.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by nutgone on Tue Jan 15 2013, 12:07

stationary stu wrote:I can't see on the pic if it has a center wheel on the front as it looks off balance to me if it only uses the 2 back wheels.

Stu.

I think it's just got a stand at the front, or a pair of stands. AFAIK it's only got 2 wheels on the trolley. Would probably take some setting up though, as the weights need to be right.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

Post by Ianhw77k on Tue Jan 15 2013, 21:55

There's a fair bit of leeway as long as you didn't have it too far back.

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Re: First Engine for my Nephews. Lister D, full restoration.

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