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New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Wed Dec 19 2012, 13:15

stationary stu wrote:Don't know if it will fit or not I'll let you check it out.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221166345478?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Stu.

Very interesting piece. Sadly it wouldn't fit this engine though.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by stationary stu on Thu Dec 20 2012, 11:47

Oh well worth a try, I saw it and thought you might be lucky, so sad, still never mind.

Stu.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Fri Mar 15 2013, 14:24

Looks like this one's back on while I'm waiting for the Kohler bits to arrive. I've emailed Mr Schofield about a possible cylinder barrel, if he comes back with a nice positive message for me then I will crack on with it.

I've been working on it a little bit last night & some more this afternoon/evening. I was having trouble getting the water pump apart, but brute force & ignorance soon got me past that little hurdle (nothing broken, but possibly slightly bent).

My main problem is removing the cone clutch from the end of the crank shaft. I've been knocking away at the nut in there with a hammer & punches, but it won't budge & I've mangled it up pretty well. Does anyone out there know how to get it undone????







I think the only thing for it will be a box spanner, but weather it will take enough force is another matter. I think I can tidy up the nut enough to fit one on, I just need to find one the right size & buy it.

Of course, the other option is to leave the nut & clutch on there, but I can't fully inspect & clean the crank case, crank shaft, main bearing, seal, & magneto drive chain sprocket from that side of the engine, & I would like to clean out the magneto chain case as well. & all that's stopping me is this one damned nut!

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by stationary stu on Sat Mar 16 2013, 11:57

Nuts I can't tell fully from the pics the depth of the nut of it's true size and how much room you have to work in. The only thing I can thick off is try and spilt the nut with a small chisel, try the cut at both sides and carefull of the threads. Could you manage to get a drill in and drill either side before trying to split it. I have to say when I try to remove a nut like that I'd use a blunt chisel or punch and hit the edge of the nut giving the most leaverage, try both methods and it may be enough to get it free.

Good luck,
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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Sat Mar 16 2013, 12:59

Cheers Stu. There night be room to get a drill in there, but I'm not sure. I may just have to leave it together & do the best I can at cleaning out the crank case & chain case. The bearings seem fine, I just hope the seal is OK in there.

Anyway, I've managed to completely dismantle the water circulation pump & I can see why it was such a bitch to get apart in the first place, it won't be anywhere near as difficult to get back together (I think someone has been at this engine & done everything up REALLY tight! in the past).

I would like to know though, what size gland packing do I need for this pump? I've looked on eBay & can get 3mm, 4mm, 4mm, & 6mm gland packing. I would think it needs to be quite small & I will probably be better off with the graphite type, but does anyone here know about this? I have the book for this engine, but it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot when it comes to anything even vaguely technical.

I will see if I can measure the gap between piston & outer bore of the gland & go from there, unless anyone knows the answer.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Thu Mar 21 2013, 15:49

I've been quietly soldiering on with this one over the past few days. I've ordered the replacement barrel from David Schofield & got on with stripping, cleaning, priming & painting various bits.

I've also been polishing up all the brass, soaking various smaller parts in battery acid for a day or two, rinsing them off & wire brushing to reveal a lovely clean brass surface (which then ideally needs protecting with polish).

I'm using the same green I used on the Kohler, which is very close to some of the Stuart Turner greens....



There is some debate as to the correct colour, but there isn't actually a "correct" colour. As with many British companies of the time, the colours varied. I've even been told that some engineers in the Stuart works mixed up their own colours, or changed the stock paint slightly, so they would know who had built which engine if any were ever to come back with faults. But I have revealed quite a lot of the original paint on this engine, & it matches the Kohler (which is supposed to be BMC engine green, which is middle bronze green, which is stated as the correct colour for Stuart Turner engines, except I think mine is a tiny bit too light, but I'm really past caring now!)

Anyway, I've been polishing up the water pump & other brass bits with the dremmel (There's no way I could do these as well by hand, they were badly tarnished, the dremmel just breezes over them in seconds)....



I have stripped most of the cast iron bits back to bare metal & applied primer....





I'm going to leave the outer rim of the flywheel clean & oil it, as it's not really in bad nick (dunno if they were painted originally or not, but would be interested to know, not that I will paint it anyway). I've also cleaned all the nuts, bolts & fixings in my parts wash & rinsed in brake & clutch cleaner. they will all be primed & painted as the machine goes back together (I don't personally go for all this leaving them bare business, especially on a marine engine. Really they should all be brass or stainless) obviously the brass ones won't be painted, I'm polishing them up for added effect.

I've even cleaned up the handle starting mechanism, including the chain....



But I'm not sure it will fit on the barrel I'm getting, as it seems the P5s had a slightly different starting arrangement to the P6 & much later P5 engines. But I'm sure I can manufacture something to make it work.

I've even got a magneto in mind to go on this one, if I don't get it then I will use the energy transfer method, winding my own charging coil to power a car/motorbike HT coil.

The only bit holding me back is the other half of the crank case. The cone clutch is still attached (very firmly) to the crank shaft, so the shaft is still in the case, along with the crank webs, con rod, magneto chain, seals, bearings etc etc. I think I might just have to give up on getting that nut undone, clean out the bits & bobs as best I can & get it back together.

Then I suppose I'll have to get the gearbox out from wherever I left it & get that cleaned & painted. I'm not going to dismantle the gearbox, even the manual suggests leaving it alone, & it doesn't appear to have any problems.

It's funny really, ever since I was young I always wanted a Stuart Turner marine engine, with all that brass & the lovely little banjo water pump. But I expect this one will have to be put up for sale once it's done as I haven't got anywhere to store it & I really could use the money for other projects & to try & keep the hobby alive. Shame, but you can't keep 'em all.

(BTW, there's nothing wrong with not painting your nuts & bolts, if that's how you do things. It's just not how I do it. I prefer to spend the next few weeks, after a restoration, getting the touch-up brushes out cheers)

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by stationary stu on Fri Mar 22 2013, 14:03

Good progress Nuts. another good restoration on it's way by the looks of things. :thumbup:

Stu.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Fri Mar 22 2013, 17:09

Cheers Stu. Not much happening today though. I've got toothache. I had a tooth break a few months back, ignored it & today the nerve was revealed. I've never known pain quite like it. Fortunately I managed to get an emergency appointment & had the damn thing pulled out!

I'm also having some trouble getting my replacement barrel from David Schofield. He's been trying to arrange a courier but having some trouble printing labels, so I'm going to arrange one for him.

Anyway, all I need to sort now is the bits which are all stuck together (crank shaft etc etc), which I was going to do today. But instead I decided to spend the best part of the day in complete & utter agony. never mind, there's always another day.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by Stamford24 on Fri Mar 22 2013, 18:26

I dunno, must be a bad day! Laughing Got out of bed this morning OK, went of to the Bathroom and affraid me back went!! and so too did some of my plans for today. Did manage to struggle out to the shed this afternoon but the backs called a halt to things now. Hope your pain soon subsides but it can get worse before it gets better.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by stationary stu on Sat Mar 23 2013, 12:00

Hope your both fit and well soon guys and can get back to your engines. There's nothing worse then tooth ache and back pain but I have to say that back pain is the worst, I'm talking from experience. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Looking forward to your next update when your in better health.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by Stamford24 on Sat Mar 23 2013, 12:17

Thanks for the comments Stu, the back is a little easier today but still on the TENS machine. Nuts has just collected a project he has kindly agreed to take over from me, so that's why I was keen to get all the mechanical bits up to a state he'd be happy with, hopefully :whistle: Ian also collected his new pride and joy taken home for him last weekend. If the back and work hadn't got in the way this week they would have been delivered this week.
Oh well, these things are sent to try us, time to get back on topic, hope you soon get the barrel Matt.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Sat Mar 23 2013, 18:29

Courier is picking the barrel up from David on Monday, it's a 24hr service, so hope it all goes to plan.

My tooth, or rather the gap where it once was, is better today. I've had toothache before, but never quite like that, definitely the worst pain ever for me, I found religion & everything! (Didn't do me any good though, now I pray to dentists!).

Taking it easy tomorrow, need a day off.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by Ianhw77k on Sat Mar 23 2013, 20:10

Stamford24 wrote:Thanks for the comments Stu, the back is a little easier today but still on the TENS machine. Nuts has just collected a project he has kindly agreed to take over from me, so that's why I was keen to get all the mechanical bits up to a state he'd be happy with, hopefully :whistle: Ian also collected his new pride and joy taken home for him last weekend. If the back and work hadn't got in the way this week they would have been delivered this week.
Oh well, these things are sent to try us, time to get back on topic, hope you soon get the barrel Matt.

Nice to see you again mate, I just had to get that engine, I've been champing at the bit all week to have a tinker with it and I've got Monday all to myself to try and get it started. Saved you one journey as well and I quite enjoyed the drive out Very Happy

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 24 2013, 23:35

OK, another day of nothing. I was very tired after my day of agony & tooth extraction on Friday, then early start on Saturday, 90 mile round trip & afternoon working on engines, after which I had to go to a quiz night where I had a few drinks (not good when I've got a liver complaint & don't normally drink at all) so most of today has been spent in bed, feeling rough, tired & with sore gums (with nephews & niece playing around me).

Things are piling up nicely though. I've got myself a magneto for this engine which should be here this week, the barrel should also be here Tuesday or Wednesday, so hopefully it'll be moving onwards. I've also got a project I am sorting out for fellow forum member Stamford24, which I picked up on Saturday & is now all here, in bits, in the workshop, & I expect Ian's Coventry Victor will no doubt require some attention this week as well.

You know what'll happen next, don't you? That's right, I'll get a little parcel from Canada with the rest of the bits to complete the Kohler & I'll be itching to get that done!

Still, the Kohler shouldn't take more than a day or 2 to rebuild. I need to prioritise Stamford24's job & the Stuart Turner, mainly because the Stuart Turner will be up for sale once it's done, & the other job has a deadline.

It's all good stuff though, keeps me busy. Tomorrow I will go to that bucket of water, outside the workshop & fish out the cast iron exhaust end plate I threw in there the other day. See if the battery acid has dissolved all the scale from the water ways. I'm hoping a good night's sleep tonight will see me right for the next few days so I can get on.

Who knows, this engine may even end up taking a back seat again Rolling Eyes .

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by stationary stu on Mon Mar 25 2013, 12:38

Sounds like you've been recharging your batteries, something we all need to do from time to time and have a little break but as your doing this 7 days a week you should have a least one day off every few months.

Stu.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Mon Mar 25 2013, 13:13

Yeah, my days are pretty easy as well, not like working for a living. I will soon be starting some pretty nasty outpatient treatment though, which is expected to knock me for six at the beginning, so would like to get as much done as I can, before that starts.

I've got some good news on this engine, according to my parcel tracking the barrel was collected this morning, at around 8:30 (hope that was OK with David, it wouldn't have gone down too well with me, I can tell you!)

Also, according to eBay, my magneto was dispatched this morning as well. So I should have pretty much a complete engine here by the end of the week.

Suppose I'd better get on with cleaning up the crank case & shaft bit. That's the last bit to be done before I start to think about reassembly.

Then it'll need a trolley, fuel tank & something for an exhaust.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by Andrew1971 on Mon Mar 25 2013, 18:01

Nut's sound's like you need a holiday. Take a break that's what sunday's are for Smile
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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Mon Mar 25 2013, 21:11

Hmmm, a holiday... scratch scratch scratch Nope, can't remember that one.

Anyway, I cleaned off that exhaust end plate today & although the battery acid has dissolved much of the scale, it still hasn't cleared the water ways I need it to. One of them has cleared very very slightly, but nowhere near enough. So it's back in for another soaking....



If you look close up you can see that, after a short time, it has started to dissolve some of the scale & turn into a black mush....



I wonder if this will need a few applications, as I expect the acid is losing some of it's potency as it dissolves the scale (not sure of the chemistry behind it, but I know they use acids to dissolve water scale, so I guess I'm using the right stuff).

What I really need is another exhaust plate, but I can't afford one right now, so I'm hoping this will do the trick. I won't be putting it back on unless it is completely clear with a good flow. If necessary I will have to buy another one from David Schofield (if he has one), but I'm not giving up on this one just yet.

My replacement barrel should be here in the morning, closely followed by my replacement magneto, some new thin gasket paper & some 4mm gland packing for the water circulation pump.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by Abes on Mon Mar 25 2013, 21:26

Coming along really well, David is great for spare parts managed to source all of mine at a very good price, not sure if you ever saw mine it was a P5M pic below, what you going to use for the fuel tank? if your interested have a really nice coper tank up for grabs if interested


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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Mon Mar 25 2013, 22:08

That's a real picture that one Abes, very nice job. Not too sure I will be dabbling with marine engines too much in the future though, they tend to throw up a whole new set of challenges, especially ones used on coastal waters.

The only fuel tank I have spare is a Villiers one, it's a bit modern, so I could well be up for a copper one. I'll give you a PM about it tomorrow.

I'm a bit concerned the starting chain design is slightly different on this engine, as it's a slightly later model, but I reckon I'll be able to get over that one.

I'm almost hoping it will end up back in a boat one day (it'll probably fetch more as a boat engine), but I aim to make a basic, but smart, trolley for it, similar to what you've done but more simple (I have to keep my carpentry projects simple Laughing ) with some kind of cooling tank.

Still not thought about an exhaust, but I guess it's a BSP thread on the engine, so not too difficult (I hope). Your set-up there has given me a few ideas though, cheers for that cheers .

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by Abes on Mon Mar 25 2013, 22:22

No probs mate glad its of some help ref cooling tank still have a spare copper fire extinguisher too lol

nutgone wrote:That's a real picture that one Abes, very nice job. Not too sure I will be dabbling with marine engines too much in the future though, they tend to throw up a whole new set of challenges, especially ones used on coastal waters.

The only fuel tank I have spare is a Villiers one, it's a bit modern, so I could well be up for a copper one. I'll give you a PM about it tomorrow.

I'm a bit concerned the starting chain design is slightly different on this engine, as it's a slightly later model, but I reckon I'll be able to get over that one.

I'm almost hoping it will end up back in a boat one day (it'll probably fetch more as a boat engine), but I aim to make a basic, but smart, trolley for it, similar to what you've done but more simple (I have to keep my carpentry projects simple Laughing ) with some kind of cooling tank.

Still not thought about an exhaust, but I guess it's a BSP thread on the engine, so not too difficult (I hope). Your set-up there has given me a few ideas though, cheers for that cheers .

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Tue Mar 26 2013, 17:00

Right, after Ian's little darlings came over on Sunday we now all have serious man flu in this house. Even my mum has it.

I'm not happy, I've gone all winter without a cold, even with my mum & dad both suffering a few months back I remained cold free. One morning of the kids coming over (all just getting over colds) & we're all struck down.

Needless to say, nothing engine related has happened, apart from my replacement barrel arriving (minus 2 studs & 2 water jacket plates with fixings, which I've now got to source!)

I'm going back to bed. Crying or Very sad pale

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by stationary stu on Wed Mar 27 2013, 12:38

Sorry to hear your under the weather, hope you and your folks are all feeling better soon. Don't worry your engine will still be the same when you get back to it, as I'm sorry to say there's no engine fairys to do the work when you can't coz I've been waiting for one for years. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Also could I suggest a fenced off area with a tarp over the top to keep the little darlings dry. Very Happy Twisted Evil Twisted Evil lol! lol! lol!

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by Stamford24 on Wed Mar 27 2013, 16:32

Sorry to hear your not well Matt, take it easy and get well soon.
Just spent this morning with a friend who I was lucky to see, by rights he should not be with us! but he is thank goodness. With the sun out he even ventured down his shed today, the first time in 8 weeks.

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

Post by nutgone on Wed Mar 27 2013, 22:58

Slight problem with this replacement barrel, it's had a +.020" re-bore. Don't think it'll run on a standard piston.

Kind of wish I was going to Enstone now. The only place I'm going is back to bed (still feel like crap pale ).

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Re: New Project Stuart Turner P6M + gearbox

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