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My New P & J, a Scott.

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My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Sun Dec 02 2012, 19:04

Well, you might have seen it before, & I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but this is my new pride & joy, it's my newly acquired (from Abes) Scott PAB engine!....









I'm really pleased with this engine, & I don't think there's many of them about (although now I've got one they'll be turning up everywhere Rolling Eyes )

So there it is, my new pride & joy, & I bet Abes is thinking "Wait 'til he tries to start it!", but I will be patient. I think 2 strokes are more my thing anyway, & they may well have to be, as it looks like I'll have to sell my only 4 stroke to fund it (my JAP Model 3).

Now I've just got to get the thing running. Will probably have a go tomorrow. bounce bounce bounce

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by jackieboi on Sun Dec 02 2012, 20:07

looks very interesting thing,would like to hear it running.could you post a vid once you have sorted it?

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by Ianhw77k on Sun Dec 02 2012, 20:33

I'll be round in the morning to give you a hand, got to drop the little girl off at pre-school for 09:00.

Don't worry, one of us will get a video, as long as we can get it started.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by Matth92 on Sun Dec 02 2012, 22:03

I expect she will go, it used to go eventually for me when I had her!

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Sun Dec 02 2012, 23:01

Yeah, I've been having a tinker tonight. I need to flush out the petrol tank as I think it's bits of crud in the fuel causing the flooding problem. I've lapped the float needle in with some Autosol as well, just to be sure.

I dropped the plug terminal screw down the cowling! Won't be doing that again, it must've taken me nearly an hour to get it back & put everything back together! Shocked Embarassed

I also took off the little frequency meter thing on the engine (the bit the electric meter plugs into). it's all a bit corroded in there, I think it must have had mineral insulated cable at some point, as there's a lot of white powder in there. However, i hooked it up to my multimeter & was getting a reading off it, so it may well work. I couldn't get it completely apart though, so don't know the in's & out's of it.

Will put that back together tomorrow & flush the tank out. Give the carb a clean & have a go at starting.

Ian, if you see this, do you have any fuel filters??? If you do could you bring them along, I would like to have a go at fitting one in line, just temporarily, if possible. I'm not gona go too mad though, not going to mess up any of Abes' nice work.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by Ianhw77k on Sun Dec 02 2012, 23:20

I've only got big 'orrible plastic ones, don't think you'll want those but I'll bring 'em if I remember.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Sun Dec 02 2012, 23:22

Ianhw77k wrote:I've only got big 'orrible plastic ones, don't think you'll want those but I'll bring 'em if I remember.

Grab that bit of flexi off the Lister D as well, might make up a temporary fuel pipe.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by stationary stu on Mon Dec 03 2012, 12:31

Have you not got a clean tank you could use for now till you sort the other tank out? Looking forward to hearing it running and to see if you can sort out them few small problems it has with starting.

Stu.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by Abes on Mon Dec 03 2012, 18:00

Glad to see your getting to grips with it mate suprised there's still some curd in the tank as also gave it a flush through got loads out, think i should have given it a second one by the looks of it, yer i put amp meter on the meter also had a reading hence did not strip that down, come on get the bl**dy thing running LOL

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by matt86 on Mon Dec 03 2012, 18:04

Abes wrote:Glad to see your getting to grips with it mate suprised there's still some curd in the tank as also gave it a flush through got loads out, think i should have given it a second one by the looks of it, yer i put amp meter on the meter also had a reading hence did not strip that down, come on get the bl**dy thing running LOL

Thats right you tell him abes Laughing Laughing Laughing

get the basta**ing thing running Laughing Laughing

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Mon Dec 03 2012, 23:08

Been working hard on her today & have found possible (well, very likely) reasons for trouble starting. I will fill you all in in the morning, & hopefully will have it all back together tomorrow & maybe have another go at starting her. Very Happy

(yes, it's in bits, well you all knew it wouldn't take me long Rolling Eyes )

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Tue Dec 04 2012, 11:52

OK, so what have I done???

Well, yesterday Ian came round for a day in the workshop & out paint shopping. We had a little go at starting the Scott, but I could hear hissing, which sounded like compression loss at the head joint, so we both decided it would be a good idea to whip the head off & have a look.

I haven't taken any photos, but it didn't look too bad, until I took the piston down to bottom of stroke, then I could see what the trouble was (not the compression loss, if there was any, but the trouble with starting it). The ports were very badly coked-up, it wouldn't have been long before the exhaust ports were completely closed up altogether, & strangely the transfer ports were coked up as well, so maybe Mr. Scott's design wasn't so flawless after all, as there must be some considerable blow-back of exhaust gasses or something like that, the transfer ports on a 2 stroke shouldn't really coke up like that.

Anyway, I took the barrel off & worked on it last night until about 10:00pm. I've managed to get most of it off & the ports are free to breathe again, so I'm hoping it will start a bit easier now.

I also found that the piston is quite badly scored on the front (exhaust) side, but I've cleaned it all up & de-coked it. I've had the rings off (sadly about 1/4" of the middle ring was broken off & wedged in the groove, but it doesn't matter, as it's wedged firmly in next to the peg, so it just acts like an extension to the peg, & there are 3 rings anyway, it's literally only just a little bit off the end.

I also cleaned the rings, cleaned the grooves & everything else I could clean. I would like to split the crank cases, as there are oil troughs under the barrel which feed oil to the main bearings in there, & I worry about thses getting blocked, but the bearings will still be fed from the crank case anyway. The insides of the crank case could really do with a good clean out, but I've seen worse, right now I just want to get it going, I also don't want to risk damaging the work Abes has already done, as this thing looks so damn good, & I really don't want another project on my hands.

So, I got the barrel back on last night, cutting new gaskets as & when. The head will go back on today. I'm not sure what the head joint should be like. It's just a plain metal to metal spigot joint, a bit like the Tarpen, but with no copper ring. I'm not sure if this should be lapped on with some fine grinding paste or just cleaned up & tightened down. I'm going to try just tightening it down & see what happens, if it leaks I will lap it on. I don't want to put anything on it though as it will undoubtedly cause damage to the piston/rings.

I think I will pull this one apart next winter, I would like to leave it as much as possible ready for next season. It's a big job to split the cases on this engine, & I really don't want to get into it right now.

BTW chaps, I know at leats 2 of you have owned this engine in the past, & I just want you all to know that I am still really happy with this engine. Abes has done a great job with the restoration. I was a bit worried about putting up my findings on here, as I don't want anyone to think I'm complaining in any way. I've looked at Abes' thread on the restoration he did with this engine & I see he never tackled the internals, & why would he? It was a running engine, after all.
2-strokes get coked-up, that's just a fact of life, especially with the older oils, it's probably never been de-coked in its' life. It's not a major job & everything's coming apart & going back together as it should.

No, I'm still really happy with it, & the fact I've got to take it apart a little bit has only made me happier. Very Happy

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by stationary stu on Tue Dec 04 2012, 12:26

Glad to hear you might have sorted it's long running starting problems so fingers crossed it will be ok this time.
Matt are you a nightmare with everything you get and have to take it apart Laughing Laughing Laughing

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It Lives!

Post by nutgone on Tue Dec 04 2012, 18:24

I got it all back together today, got all the cowling on, put the carb on & connected that up, turned the fuel on & left it on just to make sure it wasn't flooding. I have lapped the needle in with some Autosol, but I think the main flooding trouble was the last of the debris in the tank, it hasn't happened again since I put a filter in line, unfortunately I cut the wrong end of the fuel line ( Embarassed ) so will eventually have to make up a new one, but I have spare pipe.
Anway, head & barrel on, cowling on, carb on, fuel on, I went to put the exhaust back together & dropped a nut into the system! (dunno what's wrong with me lately Embarassed ), but got it out without dismantling the entire system. Then I had a go at starting it with the handle, but the starter dog wasn't engaging very well. I managed to get it all apart & the teeth are a bit worn on the starter & shaft ends. The starter bit comes off easy enough, & the shaft piece is machined into the crank shaft nut, so shouldn't be too difficult to get off & re-dress the teeth. I might even send it to a machine shop & have that done, I could probably do it with the Dremmel, but don't want to mess it up.

So I put part of a ratchet strap round the pulley, nice & tight, & used it like a rope start. I had one go, just testing to see if it worked, then wrapped it round for a 2nd time, gave it a pull & away she went! Couldn't believe it!

My dad came out & we stopped it so I could put the handle starter bit back together (I'd left it off, not really expecting it to start so easily & it was weeping a little oil from the chain case) then I put the strap round it & tried again, first pull- nothing, second pull- away she went! Easy as that.

Later on Ian came over & I tried again, blimey it took some starting that time. I think the plug had got a bit oily (usual for an engine just put back together) so I grabbed the plug out of the JAP & put that in. A couple more pulls & she went again. Believe it or not I think I'm pulling it too fast, it seems to prefer to start on impulse.

I got a 20 second video (before my memory ran out) but I can't get it onto YouTube, as my phone won't log into my YouTube account, so I think I will have to see if I can do it some other way, maybe Photobucket???

I've cleared some memory now, so will have another go in the next few days, before she goes into winter hibernation (she's being relegated to a corner of the workshop, to make room Crying or Very sad )

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by Abes on Tue Dec 04 2012, 20:32

Well done mate she sure needed someone who knows there 2 strokes, could not gone to a better home look forward to seeing her come to life

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Tue Dec 04 2012, 22:20

Let's see if this works....
(you need to click on the picture).....




I've had to start doing videos on Photobucket, YouTube just won't work from my phone any more, it won't log me on. When I click on the image above it redirects me to the Photobucket site, I don't know if it does the same for everyone, if anyone knows how to upload photobucket videos better then by all means let me know, I'm still learning here.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by stationary stu on Wed Dec 05 2012, 12:33

Nuts I can't get the video to play Crying or Very sad think you'll have to try a differnt way.

Stu.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Wed Dec 05 2012, 16:40

stationary stu wrote:Nuts I can't get the video to play Crying or Very sad think you'll have to try a differnt way.

Stu.

Will see what I can do Stu. I'm not happy with Photobucket video, my phone won't send the files as emails unless they're really small, I really need my phone to re-load the YouTube app but it tells me I need to do a master re-set for this, which will lose everything else & take it back to factory settings. I've tried to do other things to it but have only ended up messing other apps up, so now can't access Android Market to get another app! Rolling Eyes

Will see if I can plug the phone into the computer & load the files up like that. I've also got 2 videos of the Tarpen running, before I sold it, but so far have only managed to get them up on Facebook. I can't put this engine on Facebook, as my mum doesn't know it exists Embarassed (it really is easier & a lot quieter this way Rolling Eyes )

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Wed Dec 05 2012, 17:08

Here we go, I emailed it to myself, then downloaded it from my email to my computer then uploaded it to YouTube. In the rush I titled the video "Stuart Video" because I've been working on 2 Stuart Turners today & just discussing paint colours with Ian for his Stuart Rolling Eyes

let's hope this works (for what it's worth, it's only 21 seconds)....


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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Wed Dec 05 2012, 18:09

Make the most of that video, now my phone's refusing to email any more, so will have to find another way. I would like to upload the Tarpen ones as well. Looks like I'd better dig out the lead & plug the phone in to the computer. Rolling Eyes

EDIT:
I've now plugged the phone in & transferred all the media to this computer, so I've freed up my phone memory & now got all my pics & videos where I can get to them.
I'm just uploading my engine vids to YouTube now, will post a couple of them up when they're done (which looks like it's going to take a long time, hopefully it's not going to eat too much of my mum's broadband allowance).

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by Abes on Wed Dec 05 2012, 20:18

Well done mate nice to hear it running again

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Wed Dec 05 2012, 22:04

Abes wrote:Well done mate nice to hear it running again

Good, glad you approve Abes, & you're right, it's come to a good home, & very nice of you to say so too. cheers

I've been busy today, I had to go out & get Ian's paint for his Stuart, but the car wouldn't start (flat battery from too many short journeys with everything switched on) so while I was waiting for that to recharge I was researching different threads on Scott stationary engines & looking for info on them. By the time I got into the workshop it was too late to start it again.

I'm just having a go at re-repairing one of the exhaust flanges (didn't have anything better to do), I need to get some Quicksteel putty tomorrow to finish it off, then I'll have another go at starting her & make a slightly longer video. I would like to drag it outside, to hopefully improve the sound (although camera phones don't record engine sounds very well), but I'm on my own tomorrow, so might not be strong enough.

Whatever, I will do another video, before it goes into winter hibernation. Very Happy

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by Abes on Wed Dec 05 2012, 22:38

Good look forward to seeing it mate, you going to rally it next year then??

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by nutgone on Wed Dec 05 2012, 23:42

Abes wrote:Good look forward to seeing it mate, you going to rally it next year then??

Oh yes, this will be my best engine, I reckon it should attract quite a lot of attention. The Tarpen makes quite a good display as well, but this one is so different. I might not have anything to run off it, but it is only really meant to be run for half hour stints on load anyway, apparently they suffered with over-heating if run for much longer, might be different with no load, but by the looks of the piston it probably shouldn't be run all day (the piston is fine by the way, it works, but you can tell she's run hot in the past).

The Tarpen can run all day long, as can all our other engines, & we should be taking at least 2 to each show. I would like to take this one to all of them. Very Happy

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

Post by stationary stu on Thu Dec 06 2012, 12:22

Well done on sorting your phone out so we can see your videos, I've pics on my phone that I can't get off they won't email nothing Crying or Very sad shame as I have some good pics I want off, one is of an Armstrong Whitworth which is a rareish engine.

Stu.

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Re: My New P & J, a Scott.

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