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Turner V Twin Diesel

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Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by Hughesy on Sun Dec 16 2012, 20:58

Hello All

I recently managed to get a Turner Twin Diesel. The engine was seized and had been standing for around 40 years.

Engine in The Shed On the farm where i got it.


Loaded on the trailer


Diesel Tank And Exhaust Removed, Diesel TAnk Was half Full With 40 Year old diesel.


The exhaust went through the wall of the building and hadnt been capped, So the engines exhaust took alot of damage. The Bottom and baffles has rotted through.
One of the valves was open therefore letting all the water and rust through onto the piston crown.
The piston and valve is not in good state at the moment.

The condition of the Piston when i removed the head.

The Valve will require refacing just need to find a companyy to do this now.

The other Cylinder was in much better shape and doesnt require much work.
I reground the valves and cleaned and made new gaskets.

Heres a picture of the good cylinder.


Head and valves rebuilt.


Both Heads have now been removed and just need to free the pistons what is good for freeing up pistons.



Can anyone on here tell me what this is on one cylinder only. its on the air intake/air filter side of the head and is brass and pulls out.


Next will be the pair of diesel pumps and all the pipe work. I shall also be looking at the water systems and cleaning it all through.




Anyone out there who has one of these engines i would like to hear from you as i have a couple questions.

Many Thanks Lewis

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Dec 16 2012, 23:46

yes mate
you pull the brass out fill the part in head to near the top will engine oil, and push the brass all the way down again
is an oil easy start ,up the compression when cranking to make the diesel explode sooner for "easyer starting"
some early PETTERS had it on also my villiers diesel d270 and my d415 both have them on to of engine and its piped to on top of the inlet valve

its the round hole on top of head left side with the brass pipe in the middle
kev


Last edited by kevjhnsn on Mon Dec 17 2012, 00:22; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by nutgone on Sun Dec 16 2012, 23:51

Your plunger thingy is an oil primer. You take it out, put a squirt of oil in there & push the plunger back in just before starting, this helps cold starting & it really is invaluable. They work really well.

As for stuck pistons, well whatever you like, you name it. Some swear by coka-cola, some use diesel. I would be tempted to say easing oil, but it's going to be expensive. Probably best to make up a mixture, starting with your 40 year old diesel, maybe mix in some petrol, maybe a little 2 stroke oil. Just mix it up a bit, hey presto- your own easing oil/parts wash solution. Heat will probably need to be involved if it's stuck bad though, & a big hammer & some blocks of wood about the same size. Might not come to that though.

Patience is your friend here though. Hopefully Blackvanman will be along soon, he knows about getting things un-stuck.

Oh yeah, I also wanted to say, you lucky ...... so & so! What a lovely engine! I hope you'll be keeping it rad cooled? I would love a project like that, what a beauty! (green with envy).

Best of luck, looking forward to hearing more about it.

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by nutgone on Sun Dec 16 2012, 23:54

Oh yeah, Kev's pretty good with rusty old diesel pistons as well! Have a look what he did on one of his Villiers diesel threads.

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Dec 16 2012, 23:56

have a look at how i freed off my diesel engine piston and may others aswell mate
here a link any questions just ask on post or PM me
heres a link to the last one i did houghsey
http://www.stationaryengineforum.net/t5706-villiers-d270-aircooled-diesel-to-the-collection
kev

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Dec 16 2012, 23:57

nutgone wrote:Oh yeah, Kev's pretty good with rusty old diesel pistons as well! Have a look what he did on one of his Villiers diesel threads.
matt
Very Happy Very Happy your reading my mind as im typing it out matt scratch lol! lol!

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by nutgone on Sun Dec 16 2012, 23:59

kevjhnsn wrote:
nutgone wrote:Oh yeah, Kev's pretty good with rusty old diesel pistons as well! Have a look what he did on one of his Villiers diesel threads.
matt
Very Happy Very Happy your reading my mind as im typing it out matt scratch lol! lol!

Same as you with that first post, oh well, he's got the information twice now. No excuses. Very Happy

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Mon Dec 17 2012, 00:04

nutgone wrote:Your plunger thingy is an oil primer. You take it out, put a squirt of oil in there & push the plunger back in just before starting, this helps cold starting & it really is invaluable. They work really well.

As for stuck pistons, well whatever you like, you name it. Some swear by coka-cola, some use diesel. I would be tempted to say easing oil, but it's going to be expensive. Probably best to make up a mixture, starting with your 40 year old diesel, maybe mix in some petrol, maybe a little 2 stroke oil. Just mix it up a bit, hey presto- your own easing oil/parts wash solution. Heat will probably need to be involved if it's stuck bad though, & a big hammer & some blocks of wood about the same size. Might not come to that though.

Patience is your friend here though. Hopefully Blackvanman will be along soon, he knows about getting things un-stuck.

Oh yeah, I also wanted to say, you lucky ...... so & so! What a lovely engine! I hope you'll be keeping it rad cooled? I would love a project like that, what a beauty! (green with envy).

Best of luck, looking forward to hearing more about it.

mine is parrafin/diesel and old sump oil fine filtered through a gauze but first i squrt wd40 others swear buy the " GT "brand and them use this a day later to leave 24hrs and then tap tap leave 24hr tap tap and so on i use a piece of wood a flat and wide a poss to go in the bore stops the piston from popping into expensive chunks in the bore
kev

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Mon Dec 17 2012, 00:06

nutgone wrote:
kevjhnsn wrote:
nutgone wrote:Oh yeah, Kev's pretty good with rusty old diesel pistons as well! Have a look what he did on one of his Villiers diesel threads.
matt
Very Happy Very Happy your reading my mind as im typing it out matt scratch lol! lol!

Same as you with that first post, oh well, he's got the information twice now. No excuses. Very Happy

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Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy lol! lol!
great minds think a like, and all that Very Happy
kev

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by jackieboi on Mon Dec 17 2012, 00:07

arrr looks a very interesting engine.

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Mon Dec 17 2012, 00:12

HOUGHSEY
watch you have the info for the fuel system spool timing and dont mix cylinder one with cylinder two parts
they dont like it on the rebuild for some reason even was told that by many mechinics over the years
supose there all bedded in to each other over the yrs of use
kev

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Mon Dec 17 2012, 00:25

jackieboi wrote:arrr looks a very interesting engine.
i quite agree mate
i like it also theres a certain beuty to it , looky lad as always
kev

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by nutgone on Mon Dec 17 2012, 10:57

I have to admit Kev, as far as WD40 Vs GT85 goes, GT tends to evaporate a bit quicker, & its usually more expensive (you need to pick it up at shows). But it gets to work much quicker. They are definitely not the same. I still need to get myself some more WD though, although I hardly ever use the stuff, it does have its uses, as it is slightly thinner than GT85 as well.

I think I would leave them both on the shelf for this one though, & use a home brew like yours or mine. Mine now has some very old stale petrol, mixed with quite a lot of brand new kerosene (pretty much the same as paraffin), plus a large jug of 25:1 two-stroke mixture. I think there's some more oil in there too & possibly some diesel. I mainly use it as parts wash, but I guess it would work well as an easing oil too. I'm still passing it through coffee filter papers, now that's a game of patience! Very Happy

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Mon Dec 17 2012, 12:20

nutgone wrote:I have to admit Kev, as far as WD40 Vs GT85 goes, GT tends to evaporate a bit quicker, & its usually more expensive (you need to pick it up at shows). But it gets to work much quicker. They are definitely not the same. I still need to get myself some more WD though, although I hardly ever use the stuff, it does have its uses, as it is slightly thinner than GT85 as well.

I think I would leave them both on the shelf for this one though, & use a home brew like yours or mine. Mine now has some very old stale petrol, mixed with quite a lot of brand new kerosene (pretty much the same as paraffin), plus a large jug of 25:1 two-stroke mixture. I think there's some more oil in there too & possibly some diesel. I mainly use it as parts wash, but I guess it would work well as an easing oil too. I'm still passing it through coffee filter papers, now that's a game of patience! Very Happy

coffee filter good idea nutty matt
i use toilet paper 2 sheets crossed overa water trap gauze and a powerfull small magnet in there to ,on the first few filtering and then stuff the funnel spout top full with screwed up toilet paper and the usual 2 crossed at the top ,this can take hours to trickle through but no carbon or sump metalic paste remains just dis coloured mixture back in the clean container ,ready for next time round
sounds like we are as bad as each other yet again matt Very Happy Very Happy
kev

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by Ianhw77k on Mon Dec 17 2012, 16:51

Wow! What an engine. I'm after a nice water cooled diesel myself.
You are a lucky man Smile

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by Hughesy on Mon Dec 17 2012, 18:14

Thank you for all of the comments. the pumps will be staying on the engine and freed off.

At the moment I'm not sure what is happening with this engine. It depends on weight of the engine and trolley as to whether I can transport it as my trailer will only take 1/2 a ton.

If I can transport it I will show it if not I will have to sell it.

Lewis

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by stationary stu on Tue Dec 18 2012, 12:20

Nice engine Lewis, you don't see many of them around the rallies.

Good luck with it's resto and keep us informed of how your getting on with it.

Stu.

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by Hughesy on Tue Dec 18 2012, 21:42

I have tonight had a look at the exhaust which is in a sorry state.

As i mentioned in another post the exhaust pipe went through the wall and caused it become a big birds nest and a way for water to get in.

This has caused the exhasut to rot out.

Heres a few pictures.






The Bottom of the exhaust shall be cut out and the baffles and everything shall be cleaned and repaired. Then a new base shall be put in place.


One of the valves is badly pitted due to being left open and is leaking through wd40 when placed on top of the valve. I have found a local company that are willing to reface the valve for me so shall be dropping that off Tommorrow.
Heres the Valve



Many Thanks Lewis

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by kevjhnsn on Wed Dec 19 2012, 01:28

lewis
that valve is in a sorry for its self state
hope they can salvage it for you
and i hope that the head and valve sleeve have survived beter than this
keep going as you are and hope all is well ,
if not "challange on" as we all get from time to time Smile Smile
keep us all posted , it will be good to see what they do with the valve and a rough costing of the job "for future reference
kev

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by Hughesy on Wed Dec 19 2012, 07:33

They have told me over the phone there will be no charge. The seat and guide and fine with no deep pitting. Just the valve.

I hope they can salvage it. Otherwise another valve may well be needed.

Lewis

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by blackvanman on Wed Dec 19 2012, 10:07

nutgone wrote:

Patience is your friend here though. Hopefully Blackvanman will be along soon, he knows about getting things un-stuck.
Hello Very Happy lol

had a quick look/read, first things first, its a v twin, if it doesn't come free easily (and to be fair it doesn't look like it will) drop you crank out if you can, then you can work on freeing one pot at a time rather than by trying to free one off you are actually working both simultaneously making it much harder meaning you are putting in twice the amount of force on the big ends/little ends where you really want to use the least force you can.

As has been said, any thin lubricant (I tend to use wd40 at first then paraffin) you have to hand is the key, if you dry the bore, gently heat the crown of the piston (don't heat the bore too much if you can help it) while its warm chuck in some wd40, the heat will thin it further (it may bubble smoke lightly), next put a little paraffin in, no point making it swim, just make sure the crown is covered.

You may if your luck find things start to move at this point,
if not, and you have the crank out:
find a bit of timber as close to the bore size as possible, place it on the crown, strike it with a medium sized hammer (not a lump or sledge Very Happy ), did it move?
Yes: continue with reduced strikes, minimal force until piston is out
No: give it another good strike

If you can't get the crank out, drop the big ends off, remember to mark them, try to spin the shells out of the con rod (gently) don't mix them up, now use a hard piece of batten on the underside of the piston crown, remember to swap sides of the piston between blows so it will move equally.

If you are stuck and or worried and you can transport, you can pm me and bring it down here to get free'd off if you want Smile
Andy

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by Hughesy on Wed Dec 19 2012, 15:00

One bore is free as I can wriggle the piston crown. On the rings. The otherwise is the worse.

I shall be looking at it now on and aiming to getting running over Christmas break.

Many thanks for the offer of help and i shall bear it mind.

Lewis

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by blackvanman on Wed Dec 19 2012, 15:41

Hughesy wrote:One bore is free as I can wriggle the piston crown. On the rings. The otherwise is the worse.

I shall be looking at it now on and aiming to getting running over Christmas break.

Many thanks for the offer of help and i shall bear it mind.

Lewis

you are lucky Smile in that case, do as above but without worrying about the crank/other pot, get a second pair of hands, assess which way the conrod is facing and get someone to gently (ish) bar it over as you put the wood in the bore and strike with a hammer, they should then be working with you pulling the piston down as you hit it down Smile

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by Hughesy on Wed Dec 19 2012, 23:10

Had the valve refaced tonight and unfortuantly its too far gone they have skimmed it as much as they dare but it still has deep pitting. They also said its worth doing the seat in the head as going by the valve they recommend i take the head in also. so that will be done aswell.

So im now on the look out for another valve or a company who will manafacture me a new one.



As you can see still pitting to the seat.

If anyone knows of where i can get a valve please let me no.

Measurements are as follows:
Head 43mm
Stem 9mm
Length 135mm

Many thanks Lewis

Many Thanks Lewis

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Re: Turner V Twin Diesel

Post by blackvanman on Thu Dec 20 2012, 11:35

Hughesy wrote:
Measurements are as follows:
Head 43mm
Stem 9mm
Length 135mm

Hi Lewis,
bit concerned about those figures, and they bang on those metric figures? or have you rounded them (even if only a tiny bit)? not sure on the age of this engine, but I would expect it to have been built on imperial measurements, IE:
Head 1 11/16"
Stem 1/4"
Length 1 5/16"

it may not seem much difference but believe me a few thou (.001") can make a massive difference when it comes to things like valve stems/seats etc.
Andy

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