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fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

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fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by matt86 on Fri Jan 04 2013, 22:03

Hello lads , im having a look at a engine for diddy , but 1st doing a bit of research ...

The coil has gone down on the villiers coil but there is a auto coil like a lucus cylinder coil like you get on old classic cars . It is fitted from the wire which comes from the points where would connect to the original coil and that goes to one side of coil then the other side would go to earth and the HT lead pick up goes to the plug .

Is this wired up correctly to work ?

matt

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by blackvanman on Sat Jan 05 2013, 17:01

matt86 wrote:Hello lads , im having a look at a engine for diddy , but 1st doing a bit of research ...

The coil has gone down on the villiers coil but there is a auto coil like a lucus cylinder coil like you get on old classic cars . It is fitted from the wire which comes from the points where would connect to the original coil and that goes to one side of coil then the other side would go to earth and the HT lead pick up goes to the plug .

Is this wired up correctly to work ?

matt

not quite, you need a condenser between points and earth, ie: batt + to coil, coil to non ground side of points, balls its hard to explain, hang on a min............

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by blackvanman on Sat Jan 05 2013, 17:13

here:

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by matt86 on Sat Jan 05 2013, 17:53

Andy there is a condenser on the points them self but is hidden behind the points im lead to believe . So il need a battery ??

I have seen them set up before without using a battery before ....

thanks for the diagram , thats a nice handy one ... perhaps we should change your name to "yetanotherdiagramman" Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by blackvanman on Sat Jan 05 2013, 18:23

matt86 wrote:Andy there is a condenser on the points them self but is hidden behind the points im lead to believe . So il need a battery ??

I have seen them set up before without using a battery before ....

thanks for the diagram , thats a nice handy one ... perhaps we should change your name to "yetanotherdiagramman" Laughing Laughing Laughing

matt
trouble is it is easier to draw than try to explain it in words Very Happy

the only way without a battery is if the coil can be placed inside the flywheel so that a field is induced within the coil as the magnets pass over it. BUT an automotive coil of the type I think you have, will not work in this scenario, mainly as it is housed inside a metal casing which would act as a screen.

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Wiring an auto coil

Post by bencam43 on Sat Jan 05 2013, 19:51

Hi, the auto coil 2 small terminals are marked SW & CB, take a feed from a battery through an on/off switch to SW & then from CB to the points Bill.

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by matt86 on Sat Jan 05 2013, 21:29

Cheers everyone

il give it a go once i get the engine .

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by jay on Sun Jan 06 2013, 07:55

some people who do the coil and battery use a small motorbike battery hidden in a box under the engine which is possiblywhy you may not of seen the battery or wires..When i first started with engines at age 14 My first lister D type ran like this for a few years till I could get a working mag..only problem you will find is the battery will quickly go flat so you also need a way of recharging it.

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by stationary stu on Sun Jan 06 2013, 12:59

I was sort of right in what I was saying to you on the phone Matt, I thought it had to run with a power supply.

Stu.

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by matt86 on Sun Jan 06 2013, 13:40

I had a feeling too stu , but now it explains why i couldnt see a battery because it was hidden Laughing Laughing
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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by pauldg on Sun Jan 20 2013, 12:25

Late reply, but hey...

Probably nobody remembers but I got 2 villiers engines running last year like this - one with a car coil and one with a motorbike coil - neither using batteries, using the flywheel mag as the primary power source.

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Auto coil to an engine

Post by bencam43 on Sun Jan 20 2013, 12:39

Hows about a wiring diagram please , have never tried that way!! Bill

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by matt86 on Sun Jan 20 2013, 13:03

bencam43 wrote:Hows about a wiring diagram please , have never tried that way!! Bill

yes please , that what engine i want to wire up .

Matt

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by nutgone on Sun Jan 20 2013, 14:06

pauldg wrote:Late reply, but hey...

Probably nobody remembers but I got 2 villiers engines running last year like this - one with a car coil and one with a motorbike coil - neither using batteries, using the flywheel mag as the primary power source.

Yes, I remember that Paul, but it's not exactly novice work. For most people wanting to run an engine from an auto coil you have to have a battery to work it, there just isn't another way. What Paul did was to wind his own coil around the original magneto coil centre piece, this produced a small current (induced by the flywheel magnets) which when applied to the auto coil was enough to make it spark.
But, for this you will need a coil centre & the flywheel magnets must still be good.
Sounds easy enough, & to people who know about electrics & making their own coils it is reasonably easy, but involves quite a lot of trial & error to get it running satisfactorily.

I think the problem with this engine is possibly the condenser. A capacitor tester is pretty useless with condensers, you need to use a megger (insulation resistance tester) to test the insulation properties of the condenser. Most capacitor testers won't give you this information.

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by pauldg on Sun Jan 20 2013, 16:01

I'll do a wiring diagram later, but for now I'll have a go at explaining it.

It's actually pretty simple to just 'get it running' - it'll probably be good enough for a show/play engine too, I'm going further than that though because of the intended application of my engines and I need them to be reliable...

Everything following is based on the type of flywheel magneto fitted to villiers engines, but can be adapted to suit anything really.

First, you need an exciter coil. Option one is to use the coil you have already (if the LT side is good - measure for continuity from earth to the small soldered lug on the end of the coil assembly, not the one in the middle of the windings) You can strip off the fine wiring if you want, but it's not essential (and it's usually a sticky mess). Take a wire from this lug to the +ve side of the car/bike coil. The other option is to strip the coil completely and wind new wire on the core - one end to engine earth and the other end to the coil. Enameled wire is best for this due to size, but normal insulated wire will work fine too.

Next, take a wire from the points/condensor assembly to the other side of the car/bike coil. If the original condensor is good, it'll be fine for any coil you choose to whack on...

That's it - time it as normal, make sure the wires to the coil go through the back plate (obviously not through the holes in the flywheel), connect up a spark plug and see if you get a spark. At cranking speed you might not be able to see the spark at all unless it's dark - the faster you turn the engine the better the spark will get. For the wire connections to the coil it won't break anything whatever way round you connect them - you may find a better spark one way round. Also, if you find the thread with details of the conversion I did, ignore the rectifier part - it's superfluous and I've ditched that bit.

Don't be concerned about the rated voltage of your car/bike coil - these ratings (6v, 12v, ballasted 9v) are only relevant when connected to a battery.

Feel free to ask any other questions Wink

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by matt86 on Sun Jan 20 2013, 16:30

Ahhh i can see i have a problem allready .... someone decided to take all the copper windings of the coil , so i have to go the battery route anyway .

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

Post by pauldg on Sun Jan 20 2013, 18:13

If all the wire is missing off the coil, just put some more on...

Any wire with insulation will work (single or multi core - enameled, plastic, rubber, cloth braid...) - wind it on - neatly means you get more in the same space but it doesn't hurt if it all birds-nesty.

When you start winding, leave a bit sticking out to connect to earth and connect the other end to the coil, you can try to solder it to the core, but it's a pain. Doesn't matter which direction you wind it on either.

If your core is missing, use a bit of steel bar instead - or a bit of studding - just so long as the mounts grip it.

If you do go the battery route - I wouldn't put the battery inside the cowl. It'll overheat the battery as well as the engine... Also, you don't need to use a lead acid battery if you're running total loss - a stack of ni-cad or ni-mh is fine and lighter to shift around - plus you can charge them indoors.

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Re: fitting a auto coil to a engine ....

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