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New member and lister D for restoration

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Lets try some pics this time

Post by biomed32uk on Sun Feb 03 2013, 19:51

Think I have finally rememebered how to do the pics, despite me getting it right first time.

I have been lucky with time the last few weeks, my role has changed at work and I get to work from home a lot more, so I get a lunch hour and I am not late home in the evening, instead driving all over the south east UK.

Anyway pics below of my key and flywheel pullers, some of the purpose of getting an engine to restore was to keep my machine busy making things, starting with taking apart stuff.

Found a set of head studs on ebay, just got to get the last two out. I may end up up drilling a hole in a short piece of flat bar, slipping that over the stud and welding it on, gives a little tapping point for one to the right two to the left with a small hammer.




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Photo album so far

Post by biomed32uk on Mon Feb 04 2013, 11:51

Nutgones idea with the photobucket album was a good one, I've done one for the D so far, its pretty much at the point where things can only get better.

http://s1321.beta.photobucket.com/user/biomed32uk/library/Lister%20D%20Restoration




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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by nutgone on Mon Feb 04 2013, 12:45

biomed32uk wrote:Nutgones idea with the photobucket album was a good one, I've done one for the D so far, its pretty much at the point where things can only get better.

http://s1321.beta.photobucket.com/user/biomed32uk/library/Lister%20D%20Restoration




It's more for my own benefit really, as I always take many more pictures than I put on the forums, some are just to remind me how it all goes back together.

But just you wait, give it 6 months & you'll have a load of these resto picture albums. It surprises me how many I've got already, & I only got back into the hobby properly last June!

It's good though, just remember not to move or change anything. For example, if you change the name of the album all your pictures on the forum posts you've made will disappear as the album name makes up part of the address. So it's worth picking a good naming system. I messed up here & started with an album entitled "Stationary Engines" I then put all the resto pics from my first Tarpen in it, then I put all my subsequent resto albums as sub albums to that one. I named one of them "Stuart Turner" & put my brother's Stuart pics in it. Then I bought myself a Stuart Turner & had to think of a different name. I tried to go back & change the title to "Ian's Stuart Turner" & it was then I realised that all the pictures on all the forum posts had disappeared, so I had to change it back!

It's all a bit messed up, but I know where everything is (a bit like my workshop Very Happy )

Looking good BTW, I've got a Lister D to do at some point as well, so this is all good for me.

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by steve w on Mon Feb 04 2013, 12:47

good idea to put pics in an album, just had a look at them. Smile

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by stationary stu on Mon Feb 04 2013, 12:57

All looking good for a cracking Lister D resto. Have you made the key remover yourself?

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Albums and keys

Post by biomed32uk on Mon Feb 04 2013, 13:26

Yes the key remover was made by me, it was only a quick job but it worked well. Started as a slice of 3" bar. I am bit of a home machinist, I have a Boxford lathe that I was given, and I took the plunge last year and bought myself a Tom Senior milling machine, and of course all the other bits, a decent Meddings drill, multiple tool boxes, never have enough good tools.

Started from when I was an apprentice, the first year of my training was spent in the trainng shop at Paxman Diesels learning all workshop skills, I went on to be a technician electrician despite being asked if I wanted to be a machinist several times. think thats where my fasicanation with an engine of any form stemmed from. I now work as a Medical & Life Support systems engineer, so its a nice escape from the day job.

Lots of photos, I always dow it with anything I have done but never used Photobucket, when its a nice shining example be great to look back on.

I have also managed to find out about my engine, who it was supplied to and why, and have been in touch with successors of the company who are very interested in what I am up to with it, and want to see the finished product.


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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by andy1702 on Mon Feb 04 2013, 21:47

Don't bother buying hed studs on E-Bay. people are wrecking good engines to sell parts on E-bay, which I don't like to encourage. When I needed some new D head studs I made them out of bright 7/16" steel bar and tapped a whitworth thread onto them.

Andy.




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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Tue Feb 05 2013, 00:39

biomed32uk wrote:Hi John (smitty)

Good to know someone else is going through the learning like me, its always been car engines up til now, so this stationary engine resto is new to me as well.

The key and flywheel came off easily, I spent a couple of hours making a key pulling plate up from a lump of 3" bar, and made a flywheel puller of from a lump of channel iron. I have put some pics below. I used a couple of small lifting straps round the channel iron and behind the flywheel, waiting for some steel hooks to be cut from some plate. I had been feeding it freeing oil for a few weeks as well, and smoothed the end of the crank off with some wet and dry, no lumps and bumps.

I have yet to discover how the crank and bearing assy comes apart, my bearings are OK, as is pretty much everything else mechanically, just crudded up and external parts siezed up, bore, piston and internal moving parts are 100%. I may just clean the crank assy as is in a pot of paraffin and leave well alone, don't fix what's not broken.

Good luck, be keen to know how you get on with it, I'm coaxing head studs out at the moment, got two to move this morning, two to go.







Any one got any heads studs that they wish to sell on ?, especially the shorter ones in the water hopper ??.

Hello Biomed,

Just use John, It's my name after all Very Happy

I was just looking to see if you had discussed the key puller as I had some ideas of my own to attempt to make one.

I am adopting your collar type as perfect, and ask if you'd mind to let me duplicate it.
Nice and simple and looks very effective.

I had thought to make a hand held lever type as a fulcum that would behave much like a claw hammer, also a simple tool to make but I like yours better, as it looks like a knuckle saver lol.

looked at your photo link too, they're good shots for me to ponder Thx. I'm desperate to get home at the moment, as I want to get my hands dirty!

I see the oil retainer plate at the bottom of the crank, and wonder if mine has it, as I believe mine is older than yours, around the end of '26, beginning '27. (spec.11)

In any case I should have it apart when I get home so I will know what I'm looking at then.

I'm looking forward to the next few days to see what else you get to find.

Regards, John.









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what happened next

Post by biomed32uk on Wed Feb 06 2013, 11:51

John, more than welcome to use that design, I found it somewhere online and it seemed a good idea. Nice as its bearing on the whole shoulder of the key and is less likely to shear it off.

What happened next on he subject of shearing off is one of the head studs managed to shear off Mad , s**t happens as they say and it was not going to budge, no amount of heat and cooling and persuading was going to move it. I have now managed to drill most of it out and now have effectively a piece of thin walled tube screwed into the head, which still wont shift. I have managed to peen the top over away from the threads and I will leave that soaking for a few days and see if I can shift it with a straight flute extractor.

Plan B is drill down a smidge under tapping size and try a tap down there and see if i have a workable thread left. Key to that I suppose is getting the drill down there bang on centre and straight, lump of thick steel drilled through the same size, on centre and clamped up I reckon.

Plan C as a last resort is I will have to helicoil it.

All but one, it just had to !!.

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Thu Feb 07 2013, 05:17

Yep,

It's always the last one or the one that matters, Murphy had kids you know!

I usually drill with a small bit first, and then if it is off a tad, you can correct easier with a bigger size.

A guide plate is a good way to go, it at least gets the drill started in the right spot, after that it's a steady hand or a post drill.

I was lucky to get mine drilled just right, and it was close enough where it did not bind with the holes in the covers. (that was on the top cover, I have not had the chance yet to get into the rest of it.

Good luck with it and I will post my proceedings too when I get at it again,

Regards, John.




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laws of Murphy

Post by biomed32uk on Thu Feb 07 2013, 08:41

Yes, the laws of murphy, he definately had children.

I am hoping that if I soak it long enough I can coax the remains into moving, at least its soaking from the bottom as well now where I have filled the hole up with penetrant. Keep warming it up and leave it, repeat this for a few days and the oil may just get up the threads.

Here's hoping, keep us posted on your D, good luck with the key and flywheel.

Regards

Geoff

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Sat Feb 09 2013, 03:56

biomed32uk wrote:Yes, the laws of murphy, he definately had children.

I am hoping that if I soak it long enough I can coax the remains into moving, at least its soaking from the bottom as well now where I have filled the hole up with penetrant. Keep warming it up and leave it, repeat this for a few days and the oil may just get up the threads.

Here's hoping, keep us posted on your D, good luck with the key and flywheel.

Regards

Geoff

Geoff,

Warming with a flame will help draw the oil in, but you will know that I'm sure.

Have you gotten the bearing dissassembly done? I know my books are in from Stationary Engines at the post office, but I can't get them till in the morning to see how it's done, I may want to start it up yet before I get in to the bearings.
I just got home from my trip and am relaxing with some wine and a sandwich cheers , Then I can sleep and get my books in the morning and start doing some work on the "D".
Hope your studs and other stubborn bits will all conform and give up. Very Happy

Regards, John.

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the next stage

Post by biomed32uk on Sat Feb 09 2013, 09:57

Hi John, hope the trip went well and not too much snow, we have family near Ontario who got plenty yesterday.

Tried heat but I am wary on the block of too much, I have come to the conclusion that its not unscrewing, and any more trying on that angle will ruin any chance I have of salvaging the original threads. So its plan b next, tapping drill, see what I can pick out then, and a tap.

Not got to the crank assy, will leave that as is until later, but I think its outer cover off, the oil flinger is held on by a screw retained via clip through the groove in the ring, screw head lines with the slot. Ring off and I think the shaft will then draw through, one bearing may come out with shaft or stay in the housing.

Let me know how it goes, that will decide what I do. The bearings are good and I don't want to mess them up, just clean them.

Everything else is on the move, just this one damnned head stud has caused a fight. Mad

Good luck, keep us posted, enjoy the wine and a rest before heading to the workshop.

Geoff

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Sun Feb 10 2013, 08:17

Thx Geoff,

I have my books (heh heh heh!) I feel like a kid with having something over the others. Very Happy

Relaxing is a joke, I was up early and got into chores, firewood needed brought up to the porch and I mean a full cord of it!
Friends interrupted like good friends do, and after some testing of different wines and a fair amount of inebriation by the time two of them came and went (in succession of course, (Murphy!)) it was near 3 o'clock and I hadn't even had brecky yet!

My books were the focus of my impatience since I had ordered them, so needless to say I was anxious to sit down and read.

I did read through the history in Edgingtons book, and found that to be a most impressive collection of invaluable fact!

I had some supper and fell asleep and woke up at two in the morning, ready to read the restoration book, so I can let that guide me to the crank dissassembly if it indeed shows that.
Time of day is not of consequence in this case, as resuscitation of an engine is in order lol.

Tomorrow will most likely be the day for it, I'll try to keep you posted as to what's going to happen with mine as I go along.

Sorry to read that your soaking and removal attempts are not working for you, but I am sure you'll think of something to "git'r done"

Snow and foul weather are indeed causing problems for many here in the new world.

Myself, I froze the tips of my fingers without doing permanent damage as it was for a short time and they're still attached and working, just sore.
Others are not so fortunate, with a good friend having lost his truck with a tank trailer load of liquid wax out in Manitoba somewhere.

On my way to Salt Lake I personally took pics of at least 50 trucks and cars off into the tulies with damage ranging from just stuck, to total loss of equipment and life, sad.., but part of the winters up here more often than not.
My return trip was in almost tropical conditions until I had to unload back at home with the same foul weather on my last day out, go figure.

But..., I digress, time to sneak into bed with the book, I am a happy man!

Keep you posted,
Regards, John.




Last edited by Smitty on Sun Feb 10 2013, 08:21; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Addition.)

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by stationary stu on Sun Feb 10 2013, 12:45

Glad your books have arrieved and are good bed fime reading. Laughing Laughing Laughing You maybe need to take them with you on the next trip then you will have all the knowledge in you head when you return home.
Sorry to hear your having a bad time with the weather also, I have relations (on my wife's side of the family) in New England that had 3 feet of snow in 12 hours, her dad said he might stay home for a few days Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Sun Feb 10 2013, 14:09

stationary stu wrote:Glad your books have arrieved and are good bed fime reading. Laughing Laughing Laughing You maybe need to take them with you on the next trip then you will have all the knowledge in you head when you return home.
Sorry to hear your having a bad time with the weather also, I have relations (on my wife's side of the family) in New England that had 3 feet of snow in 12 hours, her dad said he might stay home for a few days Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

Yes Stu,

The weather is not as it was before this year.

We do get clobbered from time to time but this year seems like it was way worse than the previous four.
I have been readying the old old John Deere snow blower for service, and it can take care of some of the shoveling I can't do anymore. Having old engines and other stuff around is a bonus in some cases, and this is one of them.
The old girl will be chomping at the bit to get some work done for a change.

What it all means is that I now can whine about it at work and take a few days off for good reason (they don't have to know that the reason is all together different than weather Very Happy ) the snow is a couple of feet deep now and if I do not look after clearing access to the wood stacks, I'll have to rub hands to stay warm, or find me a couple of hot women. Shocked
Some areas of the parking lot and yard are snowed in as the plow man can't plow there or the walkway and decks.
I soon will have to make my chimney taller so it'll work above the snow affraid

I did read quite a bit in the books and learned that the crank assy will come out when the push rods are taken up and out study.
Just what I figured after being told that there's two bearings on one side of the crank assy, but I had to confirm exactly what it looks like before getting carried away.
So I will start on the flywheel today.

I knew the books were on the way, otherwise I would have just torn into it and probably learned my lessons the hard way lol.
The "D" is a rather simple engine (although with a lot of class) and shouldn't have that many secrets because of its nimble design, but being prepared is half the battle, and probably saves on tearing out the few hairs left on my head Laughing

Regards, John.


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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Foden on Sun Feb 10 2013, 15:09

No need to touch the pushrods, flywheel off (though can be done with it on actually) and a few nuts on the bearing housing and it all pulls out in one lump!
Pics from a Lister D rebuild series that I did for another forum.

Pete.










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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Mon Feb 11 2013, 00:44

Wonderful Pete,
Thanks for the pics, they explain a lot to me.

I've been struggling with the double "V" belt pulley in front of the flywheel over much of this aft, but it hasn't realised yet that it's coming off Mad

I think I will heat it now that I have exhausted my options for a normal removal, it is stuck on there pretty good.
I have a heavy duty puller on it, but it hasn't budged one iota yet.
Although I am an advocate for heat, I like to give it everything I can before I submit to that method.

I was able to loosen the allen set screw inside the hub without hurting it, but it was a chore to get it to move.
There is no screw in the opposite hole.
The pulley is keyed so I have done what I could to oil it and have given it some time, but it is not going to be an easy delivery.

I am sure it will come but patience is the order of the day, or days or more Laughing

I do want it and the flywheel off as I wanted to clean the whole shaft and also mount the flywheel in the lathe so I can do a nicer job touching that up.
Not to cut anything mind, but to polish. It's also easier to paper or file a nice smooth finish on the face that way.

The main thing is that I was finally able to start working on the bugger today and I am having my fun with it.
I'll have some pics soon when things start to happen.

Do you perhaps have the bearing sizes for both mains? mine is a "D" (81738 spec.11-D) Built approximately June- July/27 from what I can gather out of the books.
I can cross reference with quite a few name brand bearing manufacturers in my area rather than having to ship from GB.

Thanks again and Regards, John.

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Mon Feb 11 2013, 01:43

Applied the heat and had it just about to turn dull red before it would give. It came off but it was a tight pull all the way.

The thing is one big lump of bronze and that surprises me, I would never have thought that anyone would use bronze for a simple v pully.
It may not be original either, but I don't know that and probably will never find out.
It made my day though, the fingers hurt from holding the big wrench to turn the center screw on the puller but that's easily fixed with an ale.

Next is the flywheel and that will be tomorrow's job as I need to clean off the shaft and make up the puller for it.
Once it's come off I can get at the bearing job to do. I'm off to take a few pics and sips and get to sanding the shaft.
I am finally wound down from the trip and am starting to feel relaxed again, but that could be the beer.

No rush as I want to stretch the enjoyment I get out of it (hic!) drunken Laughing

Cheers.


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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by stationary stu on Mon Feb 11 2013, 11:58

Well at least your making progress no matter how slow it is, you just can't hurry things when working on an engine 80+ years old and some things like pullies and flywheels might not have been off in the last 50 years maybe they have been there and not touched since the engine was built. The beer will help with the strip down but if you fall asleep over the engine it's time to stop with the beer for a few hours till you recover Laughing Laughing Laughing

Any chance of some pics outside your home to see how deep the snow is, 2 feet for us is something that only happens every 25 years. Very Happy

Stu.

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Mon Feb 11 2013, 15:25

stationary stu wrote:Well at least your making progress no matter how slow it is, you just can't hurry things when working on an engine 80+ years old and some things like pullies and flywheels might not have been off in the last 50 years maybe they have been there and not touched since the engine was built. The beer will help with the strip down but if you fall asleep over the engine it's time to stop with the beer for a few hours till you recover Laughing Laughing Laughing

Any chance of some pics outside your home to see how deep the snow is, 2 feet for us is something that only happens every 25 years. Very Happy

Stu.

coming up!

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Mon Feb 11 2013, 16:06

Ok, ask and,



That is what's left!, and this is what my yard looks like



And my laneway. If it wasn't for the plow man, I'd need a tracked vehicle.




Needless to add anything lol.

Just that it's been going since early January.

Cheers, John.

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Mon Feb 11 2013, 16:22

Here's a few pics on the illustrious Lister with the pully as is.


And removed.

[url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=20&u=18055416]

The Gib key is tight also and will need some coaxing.

I might get it off today if things go well and then I can relax. I have my mind set on a proceedure and it needs to be followed. I will not do anything until the flywheel is off, so I can work with peace of mind on the bearings without having to worry about what didn't work.

It's a way of operating that leaves me satisfied and makes the projects more enjoyable.

Cheers, John.

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by blackvanman on Mon Feb 11 2013, 16:46

What's your call sign John? Wink

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

Post by Smitty on Mon Feb 11 2013, 17:04

blackvanman wrote:What's your call sign John? Wink

If you mean for the truck radio, I do not use one, a few still do, but that's fast dissapearing as the radios are abused and normal conversation is hard to do anymore, so people tend to not talk much anymore except when needed.

It used to be "Trail boss" and before that, "CJ" (as in "Crazy John" 'cause I was.)
I took risks and jobs no-one would take for the danger they presented, and of course the money Very Happy
(Think Ice roads and mining, (driving on roads most normal people warn their kids not to go on), but in the remote North not like the sensationalist stuff on the Telly.)

Cheers, John.

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Re: New member and lister D for restoration

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