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First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Thu Mar 07 2013, 14:33

stationary stu wrote:John I've an International LB 3-5hp, this is another easy project, it did run but only for a few seconds when I bought it so needs the electrical side sorted out. A few other small jobs but nothing to bad, but I need the tank off so had to get a crane to lift it safely, I now need to find the time and wait for the better weather to come.
Good luck with your next engine what ever you decide on.

Stu.

Hi stu,

Nice to see that at least one old IHC made it over there and in good hands Laughing

Is your LB a large engine? The Hp on mine is 1.5 to 2.5 and I wonder if it makes a difference as to casting sizes.
From what I can tell, mine is around the 300lbs range for weight, but of course I have not seen it physically or had a chance to find out any more about it. I'll see if I can salvage a pic off the advert, so I can post it.

I am afraid I will have to resort to building a lifting frame myself soon, as these small engines are heavy and I still have to learn to act the age I am Very Happy
I am working on obtaining an old geared cable drum with a riveted set of booms from a small 20's salvage truck to make some sort of self propelled small crane affair on wheels powered by an old engine. My yard is a rough and lumpy one and will not tolerate an engine lift for moving around.
It's only an idea sofar, but the concept is viable as I have not seen anything like it in all the places I look for bits. I have a '28 Ford frame and transmission that may just suit the idea.

Thanks for the reply Stu cheers John.




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IHC pics.

Post by Smitty on Thu Mar 07 2013, 15:27

Well.., I do not feel good about posting these pics already as I do not even have it at home yet, but here she is, I just made the deal yesterday and have to wait till April to pick it up.

It is an International Harvester 1.5-2.5hp LB engine, running well and complete as far as the owner tells me.
I thought it must be a '40's engine, but I noticed the S/N plate was an aluminium one and makes me wonder about the age.

Just thought I'd post the pics as I'm exited to get it and got lucky once more to have an affordable engine that needs loving.







How's this for comparison Stu? yours the same or slightly different?

Regards, John.


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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by steve w on Thu Mar 07 2013, 16:42

nice compact, clean looking bit of kit :thumbup:

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Fri Mar 08 2013, 04:14

steve w wrote:nice compact, clean looking bit of kit :thumbup:

Thx Steve,

I hope it isn't as worn out as the "D" is Very Happy

Regards, John.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by stationary stu on Fri Mar 08 2013, 12:21

I wonder why not many people like to disclose what engine there about to get until it's sat in there shed, most on here won't say and I'm the same.
It looks very similar John, I'm just going off what the seller told me. Your lucky enough to have the covers where mines missing but I do have the air cleaner. From what I've seen they either start first turn or there a bit of a pig to start and mines the later but I think it needs a carb strip down, tank needs a clean as it has diesel in it :doh: Embarassed don't ask Laughing Laughing Laughing and the mag needs a good looking at. I have the info to date it so when you get the engine number I get the date of her for you.

Well you've got till April to sort out the D so time to start with it's rebuild as soon as you get the parts your waiting for.

Stu.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Fri Mar 08 2013, 15:52

stationary stu wrote:I wonder why not many people like to disclose what engine there about to get until it's sat in there shed, most on here won't say and I'm the same.
It looks very similar John, I'm just going off what the seller told me. Your lucky enough to have the covers where mines missing but I do have the air cleaner. From what I've seen they either start first turn or there a bit of a pig to start and mines the later but I think it needs a carb strip down, tank needs a clean as it has diesel in it :doh: Embarassed don't ask Laughing Laughing Laughing and the mag needs a good looking at. I have the info to date it so when you get the engine number I get the date of her for you.

Well you've got till April to sort out the D so time to start with it's rebuild as soon as you get the parts your waiting for.

Stu.

I suppose it may have to do with someone else scooping the same engine you're looking at to buy, or that the deal could still go wrong and leave you look silly.
To me that doesn't matter as this one is not an engine that would be so important as to guard it from being scooped Laughing
I am an honest man, and pay for it sometimes, but if someone else works his jewels off to get it, then have at it.
I'll find another.

As for sorting the D, it may take a bit of time as things are very slow here work wise and the pays are skinny.
I may miss another pay once this Florida one has passed through.
At a time like this I split my bigger pays in half to at least have a reasonable contenuity in weekly paychecks. It helps stop me from overspending on things as I do not have a missus at home :doh:
Some times that will save my butt for the bills I need to pay. Savings are exactly that, I do not touch them.

I did some browsing last night and found some sites with info and manuals for the LA, LB, and others, along with a parts availability that's reasonable so I should be good for a decent and easily fixed engine.
I read that they can be a pain if not set up properly and a dream to start if done right, I hope I can get to play with the LB soon. It may end up running a small engine lift and maybe even a self propelled one on small tyres.

I should PM Pete I suppose and see what's up with the cam shaft and followers for the "D" I may be getting from him.

Thanks Stu, regards, John.








Last edited by Smitty on Fri Mar 08 2013, 19:00; edited 1 time in total

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Update.

Post by Smitty on Fri Mar 08 2013, 18:18

Hello my friends,

I had searched for the big and small main bearings for the lister in Canada here, and had two dead ends and one promise gone bad.

However, with faith and perserverence and some fresh ale I went at it again and found a confirmed supply for my needs, the very place I'd forgotten about from the start. Shocked

My bearing problem is solved and I can expect both here in two weeks ready for pick up. The price is surprisingly similar to your UK bearings, and it would not have made much of a difference if I would have had to order from Stationary, excluding the taxes and shipping.
Shipping is free for me here as the company has a small office right here in the city a half hour away.
Something to do with including them in a mining shipment and burying the costs. cheers

All good things to know for future use or to help out for you cousins across the pond.
Any cost cut is cost saved Laughing

John.


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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Fri Mar 08 2013, 18:32

biomed32uk wrote:John,

This may help you, Ihad some time this afternoon, work owed me some time back and i pulled the crank assy apart, like yours no problem.

The bearings in mine are both R&M (Ransome and Marles), one is LJ 1 3/4 (crank end) and the other LJ 1/1/2 , those numbers being the inner dia - no problem to get hold of over here.

Got the head drilled a tapped this aft so its all good Very Happy Very Happy

Geoff,

These bearings I bought are the exact same as you mentioned, being the LJ 1-3/4 and LJ 1-1/2.
They cross referenced as RLS 14 and RLS 12. And like you said.., not a problem to get.

Pricey little buggers, but a nessesary thing in an engine I suppose Very Happy

Thanks for your info again, it made it happen.

Regards, John.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Fri Mar 08 2013, 18:43

Hello Pete, you have a PM.

John.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by RAB on Fri Mar 08 2013, 20:05

Well, ive just spent an hour reading this post and it has been an education. i dont have much to do with Lister engines being a Petter man myself.
I think i will have to get hold of a lister d soon, unless an International comes up, ive always wanted one of them.
Thanks for your posts john, its been an interesting read.

Paul

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by matt86 on Fri Mar 08 2013, 20:32

RAB wrote:Well, ive just spent an hour reading this post and it has been an education. i dont have much to do with Lister engines being a Petter man myself.
I think i will have to get hold of a lister d soon, unless an International comes up, ive always wanted one of them.
Thanks for your posts john, its been an interesting read.

Paul

What about a IHC M type ? simple engines really once you get your head around it , mines a 3hp but do them small as 1.1/2 hp Paul

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Fri Mar 08 2013, 21:21

RAB wrote:Well, ive just spent an hour reading this post and it has been an education. i dont have much to do with Lister engines being a Petter man myself.
I think i will have to get hold of a lister d soon, unless an International comes up, ive always wanted one of them.
Thanks for your posts john, its been an interesting read.

Paul

Thank you Paul, and welcome.

The lister I have is a bit more than I had wanted, but by the same token I've learned a lot and would never stop now that I've gotten my hands dirty again and made friends and progress here and had some kindness shown.
I think I have become the orphan member of this group, being from Canada and all, and I have surely found my new hobby here! Shocked
I can safely downsize and get rid of a few other hobbies and devote my time to old engines and yesteryear as it were. I wasn't much for the new world order anyway affraid Very Happy

A Petter was almost the next candidate, as one was up for grabs here not long ago. However; I vacillated and missed that one Sad
Like some one has said here before; So many engines, so little time! or something to that effect, and how true that seems.

The IHC was another dumb luck thing, I wasn't even looking for one but tried a call because it was there for sale.
I'd given up after finding that the ph number was not in service and that answers were not forth coming to my inquiry more than a month ago. Then a few days ago the man called and a deal was made in just a short conversation, and Bingo! I own an LB! go figure!

And then there are a multitude of other engines to drool over and want, I'll never have to be without again Very Happy

It all started with the desire to own a nice Lister "A" or "B", and now I am becoming a collector of everything else but Shocked

I am glad the thread was interesting to you, Regards, John.





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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by RAB on Fri Mar 08 2013, 22:03

matt86 wrote:
RAB wrote:Well, ive just spent an hour reading this post and it has been an education. i dont have much to do with Lister engines being a Petter man myself.
I think i will have to get hold of a lister d soon, unless an International comes up, ive always wanted one of them.
Thanks for your posts john, its been an interesting read.

Paul

What about a IHC M type ? simple engines really once you get your head around it , mines a 3hp but do them small as 1.1/2 hp Paul

matt

Im gonna keep an eye open matt, i intend to get a wolsely as well, just need to get the divorce over with then its safe to get what i want.

Paul

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by matt86 on Fri Mar 08 2013, 22:21

RAB wrote:
matt86 wrote:
RAB wrote:Well, ive just spent an hour reading this post and it has been an education. i dont have much to do with Lister engines being a Petter man myself.
I think i will have to get hold of a lister d soon, unless an International comes up, ive always wanted one of them.
Thanks for your posts john, its been an interesting read.

Paul

What about a IHC M type ? simple engines really once you get your head around it , mines a 3hp but do them small as 1.1/2 hp Paul

matt

Im gonna keep an eye open matt, i intend to get a wolsely as well, just need to get the divorce over with then its safe to get what i want.

Paul

Paul sounds like best idea , dont want your ex getting her hands on them or such like .

so many engines out there , spoilt for choice Smile

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by stationary stu on Sat Mar 09 2013, 12:27

Matt so many engines in my shed, which one next lol! lol! lol!

Stu.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Sat Mar 09 2013, 17:41

stationary stu wrote:Matt so many engines in my shed, which one next lol! lol! lol!

Stu.

Hmmm,

Maybe need a boarder Stu?
Handy with spending and engines Very Happy
Can cook and eat and generally look after keeping the shed busy Neutral

Just joking mate, I should come and see your collection and make a week of it and see a few others of you at the same time Smile
It's not that you are a half a world away, that doesn't matter any more according to one of my daughters who's over there more than she's here Shocked !

cheers , John.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by biomed32uk on Sat Mar 09 2013, 17:49

Pleasure on the bearings, I'm no stationary engine expert but bearings and general engineering things no problem... Very Happy, the branded ones over here look bloody expensive as well although there were some cheapy unbranded ones around, but not sure about them in this application.

I had to buy a couple of large(ish) angular contact bearings for the vertical head of my senior milling machine last year - that hurt as well.

Like the new purchase, looks an interesting one, would have to sneak that in in the lunch box through, or wait until the managements out Very Happy

Enjoy you getting it and following the restoration.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Sat Mar 09 2013, 21:32

biomed32uk wrote:Pleasure on the bearings, I'm no stationary engine expert but bearings and general engineering things no problem... Very Happy, the branded ones over here look bloody expensive as well although there were some cheapy unbranded ones around, but not sure about them in this application.

I had to buy a couple of large(ish) angular contact bearings for the vertical head of my senior milling machine last year - that hurt as well.

Like the new purchase, looks an interesting one, would have to sneak that in in the lunch box through, or wait until the managements out Very Happy

Enjoy you getting it and following the restoration.

I own management Geoff Very Happy Laughing Sold off the missus in '99 and things have been well since! nuff said! She's a good old girl, and we're friends now.

Ouch, those (We call them Timken bearings here regardless of brand as the bigger part of their sales are tapered or angled and almost 95% of all motorcycles have them more likely then not.) They would be well up there in price I am sure Geoff.

I will tell you and also for the benefit of others on the forum here that bearings in Canada are not cheap! Chinese and Japanese are always cheaper, but I am never sure of the quality especially the chinese ones, although they must be good according to a standard. I'm old school and buy what I know! Neutral Timken, SKS, FAG and the like.

The two bearings for the Lister were (converted for your convenience Shocked ) A blow to the wallet (It's still bleeding!)

58.27GBP for the big one, and 41.82GBP for the small one, and that was tax out, not in.
I had to add 13% tax here (^%%$@$#@.....!!where's me gun!) The total was up there, but Like I say, I wouldn't skimp on bearing quality as they hold it together as it were! What can you do? (End of rant.)

Of course you have to consider the economy factor in this also as it is more expensive for us here with those kind of prices than it may be for you (with MY cost converted to GBP) in your economy. I can only go by what Stationary sells for as a comparison. In the end (which still hurts) I think that the cost as per country and IT's taxes, are similar but for a slight variation.

It was indeed a nesessity or else I would not have done it.
So.., slightly more than your side of the pond for you mates, but for me from the UK, an added VAT (not sure on that), and sucker bills from the friendly folks at customs and UPS to boot I suspect. NOT worth it.

Am I happy? Yes I am, I have my parts and can restore and forget Very Happy

Ale time!, Cheers Geoff, John.



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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by stationary stu on Sun Mar 10 2013, 12:25

Smitty wrote:Hmmm,

Maybe need a boarder Stu?
Handy with spending and engines Very Happy
Can cook and eat and generally look after keeping the shed busy Neutral

Just joking mate, I should come and see your collection and make a week of it and see a few others of you at the same time Smile
It's not that you are a half a world away, that doesn't matter any more according to one of my daughters who's over there more than she's here Shocked !

cheers , John.

If your coming to work don't think your going to have time to see anyone else, Im a hard task master lol! lol! lol!

Stu.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Andrew1971 on Sun Mar 10 2013, 12:35

Im a hard task master. Dont you mean a slave driver with that whip you have hidden away Stu lol! lol!
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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by RAB on Sun Mar 10 2013, 13:03

Andrew1971 wrote:Im a hard task master. Dont you mean a slave driver with that whip you have hidden away Stu lol! lol!
Andrew

SSSSHHHHH Mrs Stu thinks he got rid of the whip. :stick lol: :stick lol:

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by stationary stu on Sun Mar 10 2013, 13:04

No Andrew I don't like to mix busness with pleasure :xxx1: :xxx1: :xxx1: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol:

Stu.

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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Andrew1971 on Sun Mar 10 2013, 13:13

If she :xxx1: is pleasure will make make my business :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol:
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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

Post by Smitty on Sun Mar 10 2013, 20:44

stationary stu wrote:
Smitty wrote:Hmmm,

Maybe need a boarder Stu?
Handy with spending and engines Very Happy
Can cook and eat and generally look after keeping the shed busy Neutral

Just joking mate, I should come and see your collection and make a week of it and see a few others of you at the same time Smile
It's not that you are a half a world away, that doesn't matter any more according to one of my daughters who's over there more than she's here Shocked !

cheers , John.

If your coming to work don't think your going to have time to see anyone else, Im a hard task master lol! lol! lol!

Stu.

Stu,
If I came to work I'd have no time for playing around, I'd have to figure out how to stow all the spares for going home lol Shocked

I'd be like the regular maid, and tell you to "get out of my kitchen!" when you want to interfere with me working Laughing Laughing

John.

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Clean up the "D" carby.

Post by Smitty on Sun Mar 10 2013, 22:56

Well,

Got bored and attacked the carb which I had left for a rainy day.

Got into dismantling and checking out the bits, and found it to be in good order as far as can be.

Some pics..,



I wonder how accurate this carburetter is for the year of build on the engine (Mid 1927) as some things are different from what I've seen so far on the forum.
Take for instance the single screw on the needle disk, I thought all of them had two of those. The two markings, one that says normal, and the other, which I can't quite make out the word or characters on (likely reads "rich" or lean) are there, and one small arrow shows just barely.
Must be those two settings for starting and running but with no extra stop screw.
It was my impression that the disks all had two holes and once you set them up, would give control between lean for startup, and rich for running once it has warmed up a bit.

The serrated ring under the disk -detents for non slip settings I suppose- does not line up very well with the spring loaded detent pawl (pic below), as it has made a visible wear path on just the very edge of the serrations, and has left the main width of the serrations almost untouched.
It makes me think that the needle and body may be mis-matched.

I am not sure that the D65 is the proper body for the year either and will have to look that up as well.



Here's the needle end which is in surprisingly good shape and needs just a little touch to straighten the point, there are no scratches or any damage to it.
Have not checked the seat yet.


The floating "clattery" valve or air intake control valve is seemingly in good working order, but it's stem is housed in a brass tube which seems too long and a non standard tension screw has been fitted to limit the amount of rise it can achieve looks like, is this standard?
I can only go by what I've seen sofar on the forum and I thought that it could either be a plunger controlled choke affair or a totally -no need to touch- setup.

And here's the disk with one screw.


The needle housing or seat / main jet, is serviceable with a touch of cleanup and other than a few handling mishaps in the bottom end where the screw slot has been damaged a bit looks good to go.
Some arse has been at the threads with a pair of alligator tooth pliers and flattened some of them, but again not un-repairable and not stopping it from working I'm sure.



Can't see it too well here, and the thread damage is on the other side and only one pic Rolling Eyes

The rest of the carburettor is in good shape although the butterfly may be a home made afair as no stampings or numbers and a bit less than factory quality IMHO, ditto for the spindle.
I won't touch it till I have to.

The spindle is fair enough to not need a touch, so I have a reasonable chance at one good component at least on this engine, which is encouraging lol.

That's it again as I have to be off at 5 in the morning to do about 4 days of work, and then I suppose I'll be home again for a few.

Cheers my friends and a good safe week,


John.









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Smitty
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Re: First lister D, and first time everything else in old engines.

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