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Petter PAZ1 dating

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Post by tsjaar Fri Jan 18 2013, 18:40

Hello,
I just bought a Petter PAZ1. I want to know from which year it is.
The serial nr on the plate is 4113402.
It has a upright decompressor lever (unlike a flat one, which is shown in the most handbooks).

Can anyone help me?
And has anyone the right handbook for this typ?

Tnx
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Post by Foden Fri Jan 18 2013, 19:26

Your engine is an early one by your description, I did have a handbook but sold it with my engine. If you send an email to Jim Perkins (ex Petter service engineer) he can date it and may even have a handbook. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Pete.

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Post by Guest Sat Jan 19 2013, 12:36

All I can help you with is the PAZ1 range was built from 1953 - 1981.

Stu.

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Post by tsjaar Tue Jan 22 2013, 18:23

Thanks guys cheers ,

Jim Perkins was of great help!
According to him mine Petter PAZ1 is a series 1 from 1962.

I found myself that they build 2 series.
Series 1 were built between 1954 - 1963 with engine numbers 4100001 - 4125891.
Series 2 were built between 1964 - 1979 with engine numbers of 4130001 - 4251178.

This might be of help for someone els.

Tsjaar.
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Post by bbs Sat Jan 26 2013, 15:26

And is there also a second place for the serial number? I have not a type plate at my Petter, and hope there is another place for this number.

ps:can you post a picture from your Petter?

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Post by Guest Sun Jan 27 2013, 12:29

Have you checked the flywheel for numbers, some engines have them stamped there but not sure about a PAZ1.

Stu.

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Post by Foden Sun Jan 27 2013, 19:52

bbs wrote:And is there also a second place for the serial number? I have not a type plate at my Petter, and hope there is another place for this number.

ps:can you post a picture from your Petter?

Send Jim Perkins the number on the fuel pump, he may be able to roughly date that?

Pete.

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Post by bbs Sun Feb 10 2013, 14:05

The number of the Bryce Berger fuel pump is AA1AA50/6S179A and P13490.

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Post by cancunia Wed Feb 19 2014, 13:31

Hi all,

I just came across this post after trying to find the build date of my PAZ1. Unfortunatley there's no serial number tag on the cowling, but the flywheel has 193366. By using the numbers above and dropping the leading 4 which is common to all of the numbers it fits within the second range about halfway so about 1970 assuming approx the same amount of engines per year.

Does anyone know if this is a valid way of dating the engine?

Thanks

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Post by Garak Sat Nov 18 2023, 17:02

tsjaar wrote:Thanks guys  cheers ,

Jim Perkins was of great help!
According to him mine Petter PAZ1 is a series 1 from 1962.

I found myself that they build 2 series.
Series 1 were built between 1954 - 1963 with engine numbers 4100001 - 4125891.
Series 2 were built between 1964 - 1979 with engine numbers of 4130001 - 4251178.

This might be of help for someone els.

Tsjaar.

As I'm trying to date a recently purchased PAZ1 which is missing it's ID plate I was happy to find this post as I had found some marks on the engine that I thought would identify it and confirm the markings.

The first, and the most compelling as far as the date of manufacture is concerned is on the flywheel and it's part of the casting, not stamped afterwards which is 'Dec 63' and it's a second generation engine as it has the half exposed flywheel (like the Petter A1) not fully enclosed like the first generation.

The second set of marks are on the opposite side of the engine and are 2 / 141131 which I interpreted as a 2nd generation engine with it's serial number (assuming that the first '4' is removed)

So if the first two sets of markings are correct then I appear to have a second generation engine with a manufacturing date of December 1963 and a serial number of 4141131.

If that is correct then there is a conflict with the information above as my engine number ties it with engines produced between 1964 and 1979 and I have the second gen cowling and engine number. I can only then conclude the factory discovered an early flywheel from a 1st gen production run and used it on this engine or it had been swapped out by a former owner.

Also was it common practice for Stationary engine manufacturers to produce their own engine castings or were they produced by outside foundries? on mine there is a 'Qualcast' mark on one of the engine casings. Qualcast had iron foundries in Derby (near me) and in Wolverhampton.

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Post by Foden Sat Nov 18 2023, 19:04

The flywheels are different between the early and later engines, the cooling fins are facing the rear on the engines with the fully enclosed flywheel. You mat be able to date it from the number on the fuel pump, I'm guessing that it's a Bryce one? I don't know where Jim Perkins records went after his death, maybe Internal Fire has them, but even with having the engine number Jim could only roughly date mine to mid fifties.

We delivered limestone daily to Qualcasts foundries at Sinfin and Smethwick, at one time they did a lot of casting for Ford and Perkins. However Ford eventually found it cheaper to get the casting done in Korea. I know that Stuart Turner did casting for other companies, especially ancillary equipment like vacuum pumps etc, but I think that most of the major engine makers had their own foundries on site. Your Petter could be a Loughborough built engine where Jim Perkins worked, my A1 was, so Qualcast at Sinfin would be almost on the doorstep.

Pete.

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