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Lister D Starting Troubles

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Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 17:30

Hello,
I am having some problems starting my D type. I tested the spark plug but there was no spark so I have purchased a plug from the website below, the same plug as the one that was in it before, however it does still not want to spark.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230779550309?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

On the first try starting it after fitting the new plug it fired a couple of times but then stopped firing. every time I started it afterwards it did not seem to fire, exactly the same as before the new plug. I took the plug out and tested for a spark again to make sure it was still working and there was a nice little blue spark when holding it near the casing, however it did still not fire. can anyone help? Is the gap between the two sparking points on the plug the correct width (what is the correct width?

Toby.

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by steve w on Wed Jan 23 2013, 17:59

might be worth closing the gap slightly and rubbing a pencil on the plug tip. i hear that you can take the plug down to 10? have you tried to start it while holding the air intake in, i wonder if its a petrol mix problem or maybe a condenser issue. i am sure one of the experts will be on soon as i am still learning myself.

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 18:02

steve w wrote:might be worth closing the gap slightly and rubbing a pencil on the plug tip. i hear that you can take the plug down to 10? have you tried to start it while holding the air intake in, i wonder if its a petrol mix problem or maybe a condenser issue. i am sure one of the experts will be on soon as i am still learning myself.

I always hold the air button down when starting, so that's not the problem. As I say, I can get a spark when testing it near the casing but when it's screwed in, zilch!

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by matt86 on Wed Jan 23 2013, 18:29

if you take the plug out and ignore that for a minute and crank it over and with some insulated pliers hold the lead terminal around 1/2" from a bare metal surface if sparks just and nice and blue and even a crack sound you should be fine to know your mag should be ok . It might be worth even to take the mag cover plate off and turn engine over untill the points open and gently rub some fine wet and dry or Emory over both point contacts . then give it a try .

In wet and damp conditions its possible to get condensation in the mag and the can cause corrosion or rust which does not help .

Try that and report back Toby .

Matt

Ps is the plug getting wet with fuel when you crank her over ?


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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 18:36

matt86 wrote:if you take the plug out and ignore that for a minute and crank it over and with some insulated pliers hold the lead terminal around 1/2" from a bare metal surface if sparks just and nice and blue and even a crack sound you should be fine to know your mag should be ok . It might be worth even to take the mag cover plate off and turn engine over untill the points open and gently rub some fine wet and dry or Emory over both point contacts . then give it a try .

In wet and damp conditions its possible to get condensation in the mag and the can cause corrosion or rust which does not help .

Try that and report back Toby .

Matt

Ps is the plug getting wet with fuel when you crank her over ?


Hi Matt, There is an nice blue spark when I tested it so it seems that is fine. When I take the plug out there is some fuel in the hole so that seems fine aswell.

Toby.

P.S. How do you take the cover off the mag (Bearing in mind I've got an original mag on a shaft drive engine.

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 19:19

Could the carb mixture wheel be screwed in too much not allowing enough fuel in? (Although there is a little round the plug when taken out)

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by Abes on Wed Jan 23 2013, 19:46

Could well be mate you have had it apart are you sure everything went back as it should, and are you setting it to the right position when starting.
To take the mag cover off slide the retaining clip to one side, take hold of the brass cover and give it a little twist, it is a nice snug fit but be gentle.

SussexSteamFan wrote:Could the carb mixture wheel be screwed in too much not allowing enough fuel in? (Although there is a little round the plug when taken out)

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by matt86 on Wed Jan 23 2013, 19:58

SussexSteamFan wrote:
matt86 wrote:if you take the plug out and ignore that for a minute and crank it over and with some insulated pliers hold the lead terminal around 1/2" from a bare metal surface if sparks just and nice and blue and even a crack sound you should be fine to know your mag should be ok . It might be worth even to take the mag cover plate off and turn engine over untill the points open and gently rub some fine wet and dry or Emory over both point contacts . then give it a try .

In wet and damp conditions its possible to get condensation in the mag and the can cause corrosion or rust which does not help .

Try that and report back Toby .

Matt

Ps is the plug getting wet with fuel when you crank her over ?


Hi Matt, There is an nice blue spark when I tested it so it seems that is fine. When I take the plug out there is some fuel in the hole so that seems fine aswell.

Toby.

P.S. How do you take the cover off the mag (Bearing in mind I've got an original mag on a shaft drive engine.

just a cover that comes off with a peice of spring steel that you side out of the way ...

Did you check spark with the plug connected to ht lead or not ??


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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 22:21

Hi Matt, yes I checked the plug with ht lead attached while holding it near the casing while turning over the engine, like how Abes told me to. What is the gap between the sparking points meant to be?

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by matt86 on Wed Jan 23 2013, 22:27

i mean did you hold the lead close to the engine with no plug on the end ?

try that ...

but i think your problem is the needle valve has been set wrong since you stripped carb after getting some muck in there .... try not to run these engines dry of fuel .

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by Hughesy on Wed Jan 23 2013, 22:28

I always set my magneto point gaps to 12 thou and the spark plug to 25 thou.

Just check that there is a carbon build up in spark plug hole. As I had a d type like yours it would spark outside the engine and not when inside. I was told it could be a large carbon build up in plug hole and as you screw it in the plug touches the carbon and earths the spark plug out.

So just check its nice a clean in there.

Many thanks Lewis

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 22:32

Hi Lewis, occassionally there has been some carbon in there which I have had to clean out.

Toby

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 22:32

matt86 wrote:i mean did you hold the lead close to the engine with no plug on the end ?

try that ...

but i think your problem is the needle valve has been set wrong since you stripped carb after getting some muck in there .... try not to run these engines dry of fuel .

Matt

No, I have only tested it with the plug on.

Turns out that I was lucky and running low wasn't the problem, it was a duff plug, which has now been replaced.

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by matt86 on Wed Jan 23 2013, 22:47

what plugs are you using ?

champion D16 you may use but i seem to find NGK AB6 works better for me

http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/ngk-ab6.html

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Wed Jan 23 2013, 22:48

I am using a NGK AB-6

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by nutgone on Wed Jan 23 2013, 23:38

Toby, the spark plug gap should be between .016" & .018", definitely no more than .020" or you're stressing the magneto & could damage the HT coil (will eventually burn it out, big plug gaps aren't good for old mags, & coil rewinds are expensive).

I always gap mine to .017" with a feeler gauge.

Do you have a multimeter? I could give you a quick test to do on the mag, might rule out any problems.

The spark should be nice & fat, either blue or white, & you should be able to hear it click (if there isn't too much background noise of course).

It sounds more like a fuel problem to me, or maybe it's just a knack. All these engines are a little different, some just take a bit of getting used to. This cold & damp weather doesn't help either.

I did email you a few days back, not that it's much help though.

EDIT: Just read the other posts, looks like you've got it going???

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by nutgone on Wed Jan 23 2013, 23:42

SussexSteamFan wrote:
Turns out that I was lucky and running low wasn't the problem, it was a duff plug, which has now been replaced.

Does this mean it's now running? ( Very Happy )

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Thu Jan 24 2013, 07:10

No, I'm afraid not

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by matt86 on Thu Jan 24 2013, 09:14

so its something else rather than a duff plug .....

Im sure its fuel side of things ...

when you close the needle down (handwheel) can you feel it go tight on the threads or does it just hit a stop ? ( the screw in the hand wheel itself )

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by nutgone on Thu Jan 24 2013, 10:30

Have you given the plug hole a good clean out??? After you scrape any carbon deposits off you must wind the engine over a few times with the plug out, to blow any little bits out the hole.
Also, when you wind an engine over with no plug (unless you're testing for a spark) the plug terminal should be earthed to the metal somewhere on the engine, basically it gives the electricity from the mag somewhere to go. (This isn't massively important, but is a good habit to get in to, & your mag will thank you for it).

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by stationary stu on Thu Jan 24 2013, 11:24

Toby what have you been sorting out after the last time it was running? If it was the carb then that's where you need to start looking first.

Stu.

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

Post by SussexSteamFan on Fri Jan 25 2013, 22:18

nutgone wrote:Have you given the plug hole a good clean out??? After you scrape any carbon deposits off you must wind the engine over a few times with the plug out, to blow any little bits out the hole.
Also, when you wind an engine over with no plug (unless you're testing for a spark) the plug terminal should be earthed to the metal somewhere on the engine, basically it gives the electricity from the mag somewhere to go. (This isn't massively important, but is a good habit to get in to, & your mag will thank you for it).

Hi guys, I will give this a go Matt when I'm free on Sunday, I'll let you know how it goes...

Toby.

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Re: Lister D Starting Troubles

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