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Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

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Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Sun Feb 10 2013, 13:33

Picked my new engine up yesterday its a F & J 2hp NC, from the late 20's, i have had a few problems starting it and keeping it running but with the help online from Kev and Jonsey have had it running again, i think when its running correctly i will build a new trolly and maybe in time give her a strip down as there are a few things i am not happy with.





Last edited by steve w on Fri Feb 15 2013, 17:20; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Feb 10 2013, 15:24

jonesey is good lad even better when" hes bettter" Smile
hes a great man i find him to be
shame he lives so far away
if you read this mr jones "yes i know your glad you live so far away from me " Smile Smile Laughing Laughing
hope its just little teathing troubles
it may just be you getting used to the setting up for running
ive and many others have missed the smallest things and thought for the worse Embarassed
kev

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Feb 10 2013, 15:31

billperves sent me this in an email as we were havin a chat
and it sounds pluasable to me
kev

Kev, Sounds like too much fuel, may be a problem with the foot valve in the tank.They tend to get sticky with crap....open it up and clean the seating that the ball bearing sit in.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Sun Feb 10 2013, 16:43

Sounds like too much fuel, may be a problem with the foot valve in the tank.They tend to get sticky with crap....open it up and clean the seating that the ball bearing sit in.

Foor valve? ball bearing? do you mean in the fuel tank, will this be where the fuel pipe goes in? sorry to sound dumb lol but i didnt know there would be a valve in the tank. Embarassed

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Feb 10 2013, 17:15

steve w wrote:
Sounds like too much fuel, may be a problem with the foot valve in the tank.They tend to get sticky with crap....open it up and clean the seating that the ball bearing sit in.

Foor valve? ball bearing? do you mean in the fuel tank, will this be where the fuel pipe goes in? sorry to sound dumb lol but i didnt know there would be a valve in the tank. Embarassed
yes mate were the fuel pipe comes down from carb into tank there should be a check valve or none return valve so the fuel dont go with the gravaty back to the bottom tank

P.S if you dont ask you wont never get to know things mate
kev

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Sun Feb 10 2013, 17:34

Thanks Kev, This is the video when it was running at its best before it chocked itself.


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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by stationary stu on Mon Feb 11 2013, 11:44

Very nice engine you lucky sh1t, I don't think I'd be changing anything on it. Isn't it strange when you go to look at an engine it runs great but when you get it home it has alsorts of problems or is that just my luck. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Mon Feb 11 2013, 14:32

stationary stu wrote:Very nice engine you lucky sh1t, I don't think I'd be changing anything on it. Isn't it strange when you go to look at an engine it runs great but when you get it home it has alsorts of problems or is that just my luck. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

it didnt run to great when i saw it but cant be anything major i dont think? i have tried it again this morning it fired first time and ran for about 5 mins then cut out and the plug was chocked and the piston flooded? i hope the new spark plug helps, i have looked at the timing and all seems ok, compression seems good but i have not had much experience with hit and miss so dont know,

there is a few things i will have to look at when its running ok like a new trolly.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Mon Feb 11 2013, 18:48

just been told this is an NB not an NC and dates to about 1925.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by kevjhnsn on Mon Feb 11 2013, 20:57

steve w wrote:just been told this is an NB not an NC and dates to about 1925.
steve
that sounds true to me Rolling Eyes Embarassed
nc
i seam toremember/ think they have solid flywheels and look smaller ,looks more like a inter la/lb style
kev

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Tue Feb 12 2013, 07:48

kevjhnsn wrote:
steve w wrote:just been told this is an NB not an NC and dates to about 1925.
steve
that sounds true to me Rolling Eyes Embarassed
nc
i seam toremember/ think they have solid flywheels and look smaller ,looks more like a inter la/lb style
kev

Embarassed Embarassed your right Kev. Smile

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by stationary stu on Tue Feb 12 2013, 11:52

Steve if it's only running for a short while before it dies sounds as if it could be the condensor breaking down.

Stu.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Tue Feb 12 2013, 18:48

stationary stu wrote:Steve if it's only running for a short while before it dies sounds as if it could be the condensor breaking down.

Stu.

it seems it is chocking to death stu, i have been reading and i think it needs a hotter running spark plug well for starters, is there a way i can check the compression and the mag are ok? also maybe i need to check the seating of the fuel needle?

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by kevjhnsn on Tue Feb 12 2013, 23:58

steve w wrote:
stationary stu wrote:Steve if it's only running for a short while before it dies sounds as if it could be the condensor breaking down.

Stu.

it seems it is chocking to death stu, i have been reading and i think it needs a hotter running spark plug well for starters, is there a way i can check the compression and the mag are ok? also maybe i need to check the seating of the fuel needle?

a small bend in the needle tip or tip snapped of could also be a factor , my lister A was a hunter and all it was a small kink in the tip
kev

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by Smitty on Fri Feb 15 2013, 03:05

steve w wrote:
stationary stu wrote:Very nice engine you lucky sh1t, I don't think I'd be changing anything on it. Isn't it strange when you go to look at an engine it runs great but when you get it home it has alsorts of problems or is that just my luck. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

it didnt run to great when i saw it but cant be anything major i dont think? i have tried it again this morning it fired first time and ran for about 5 mins then cut out and the plug was chocked and the piston flooded? i hope the new spark plug helps, i have looked at the timing and all seems ok, compression seems good but i have not had much experience with hit and miss so dont know,

there is a few things i will have to look at when its running ok like a new trolly.

Hello Steve,

If it is flooding it may be that it is running extra rich, possibly due to a needle problem.
I'm sure youd've tried rich and lean settings, but even at full rich it shouldn't leave petrol in the cylinder, retarded valve timing could cause some problems like that I think, but you said it all looked good, I'm hoping it is just something simple.

Could the fuel be old or maybe contaminated? Petrol over time loses some compounds that will cause a higher flashpoint. (less willing to fire or becoming less flammable.)
I'm no expert though and have no time at all on these, so I can only give you my thoughts.

I'm interested to find what makes it do that for my own sake lol, regards, John.


Last edited by Smitty on Fri Feb 15 2013, 03:07; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar)

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by Hughesy on Fri Feb 15 2013, 07:15

Is your check valve closing as it should do. Stopping the fuel from going in when it's not needed. Lewis

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Fri Feb 15 2013, 08:07

Hughesy wrote:Is your check valve closing as it should do. Stopping the fuel from going in when it's not needed. Lewis

Thanks for the reply john (Smitty) - they might be simple engines but the slightest change in set up seems to alter the running alot, i should sort it out soon as i will work through every option,

old fuel could be the reason - i might have to lean the engine and syphon the petrol out as the tank is under the engine block.

- Hughesy - This has been mentioned by another forum member and one i hadnt thought of so it may well be the reason,

i can feel a complete strip down coming on although before that i would hope to meet someone that can have a good mooch first.

steve.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by Hughesy on Fri Feb 15 2013, 16:20

I had it on my lauson the check valve was sticking open and letting far too much fuel through. I screwed in a bit tighter and it improved the running and starting a lot.

If you've got old fuel in It I would also change that. Have a look into the fuel system and make sure everything is clean.
With the check valve take it apart and clean the little ball with a bit of brasso or the like. And make sure it's perfectly round. Many thanks Lewis

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Fri Feb 15 2013, 17:18

Think i have found the problem, today i took the carb off for a good look and cleaned the needle, i found the brass part the needle locates in hardley has a shape to it so i think this has been replaced with the wrong one in the past only the tip of the needle goes in so when i even unscrew it a quarter of a turn it open the inlet completely flooding the carb. - if this is the case i will need either a new one machineing or a replacement found? -

i would of thought the needle should match its complete profile rather than just a tip in a slight v shape?

i also took the fuel pipe out of the tank and the ball seems to be free and working ok although the fuel tank insert is loose as the solder has come off so the ppe is just pushed in and not sealed at the top.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by Smitty on Fri Feb 15 2013, 17:45

steve w wrote:Think i have found the problem, today i took the carb off for a good look and cleaned the needle, i found the brass part the needle locates in hardley has a shape to it so i think this has been replaced with the wrong one in the past only the tip of the needle goes in so when i even unscrew it a quarter of a turn it open the inlet completely flooding the carb. - if this is the case i will need either a new one machineing or a replacement found? -

i would of thought the needle should match its complete profile rather than just a tip in a slight v shape?

i also took the fuel pipe out of the tank and the ball seems to be free and working ok although the fuel tank insert is loose as the solder has come off so the ppe is just pushed in and not sealed at the top.

Steve,

I think you have found your problem with the needle and seat being non-matching.
They should both have the same taper to them for at least a bit in order to be able to adjust the mixture at more minute increases rather than immediate opening of the jet.
I've had similar problems with one old motorbike and the fix was using a pin with nearly the same taper as the needle, and putting some compound on it and twisting it back and forth in the jet to try and make the faces match a bit better, it worked well enough to keep it running reasonably well, but replacement was nessessary after all to get the problem corrected.

Good luck, regards, John.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Fri Feb 15 2013, 17:51

Thanks for the reply John, the needle has about a 6mm taper and goes into a v about 1.5mm deep as far as i can see - i dont thing the brass insert has enough thickness to increase the depth of the V.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by Smitty on Fri Feb 15 2013, 20:40

steve w wrote:Thanks for the reply John, the needle has about a 6mm taper and goes into a v about 1.5mm deep as far as i can see - i dont thing the brass insert has enough thickness to increase the depth of the V.

That's the problem with most of the carburettor stuff Steve, no room to manouver lol.
Well then I hope you find a way or parts that will bring it back to the way it should run so you can sit back and let it relax you.

Regards, John.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by steve w on Sat Feb 16 2013, 03:11

Smitty wrote:
steve w wrote:Thanks for the reply John, the needle has about a 6mm taper and goes into a v about 1.5mm deep as far as i can see - i dont thing the brass insert has enough thickness to increase the depth of the V.

That's the problem with most of the carburettor stuff Steve, no room to manouver lol.
Well then I hope you find a way or parts that will bring it back to the way it should run so you can sit back and let it relax you.

Regards, John.

would be good john, a company in the usa supply a new needle and seat so may end up having to order one up, it will take about 4 weeks to arrive and i am not sure how paying the import tax works, i just hope it it the right one as dont seem to be able to get much information on them / diagrams.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by billypurves on Sat Feb 16 2013, 12:05

Hi Steve, You may be fortunate and not have import tax to pay..sometimes you get away with it. If you do have to pay, your postman will put a card through your letterbox and you pick up the parcel from your nearest main Post Ofiice and pay them whats due.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

Post by stationary stu on Sat Feb 16 2013, 12:29

Steve another way around the impost duty is to get the sender to write gift on the import slip, it might work as I've had a few sent like that without any problem.

Good to hear you've found the problem to it's poor running and fingers crossed it's the correct part on order and it cures the problem. Very Happy

Stu.

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Re: Fuller and Johnson NB 2HP

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