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Lister D Questions

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Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Sat Feb 16 2013, 17:36

Just been running my Lister D but I've noticed there may be a few problems that need ironing out: Firstly the governor leaks oil from the filler, should it do this? Secondly the engine runs for about 6 or 7 minutes before bogging down, smoking out the exhaust (It doesn't smoke when running normally) and sounding like its struggling. However as soon as I stop the engine, re-prime the carb and set the needle valve in the same place it runs fine! Does anyone know why this may be? ...and two quick questions: What should the valve lash be? Book says .003" but it doesn't like that and I was recommended 0.010" which runs better but makes a racket. Finally how would I check the timing for the magneto?
Sorry its a mouthful of questions!
Thanks
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by jay on Sat Feb 16 2013, 17:50

the governor leaking is due to over oiling it,drain the oil out the governor by undoing the 3 bolts on the bit where throttle linkage attaches..
timing the mag..turn the engine till tdc wirebrush the flywheel or look closely you will see a mark like a elongated Z this is the timing mark,as that mark comes to the top of the flywheel the mag points should just be opening..

what color smoke??
when u say reprime the carb is this because the carb is empty of fuel??
I set the valve clearance by feel on the lister D..in that i mean just so the rockers have a bit of movement/clearance.

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Sat Feb 16 2013, 17:54

The smoke is grey/white not thick and the carb is empty of fuel (I think) when the engine stops. The engine won't start again unless I reprime it and then it starts after only a few swings.
Hope this helps!
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Sat Feb 16 2013, 19:57

After a brief run (5mins), head re-tightening, governor oil drain, valve lash re-set and timing checked it was quieter and seemed to run better but now it vibrates a bit more... Towards the end of the run there was smoke out the exhaust (the same white thinly dispersed smoke) The engine does have the brass fuel filter so maybe this is suspect?
Thanks for any help
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Sun Feb 17 2013, 15:03

Well after emptying a lot of water from the cylinder I think it's safe to say that it wasn't smoke but steam... I think a new head gasket may be useful...
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by jay on Tue Feb 19 2013, 18:14

get the brass type gasket as they are much better than the paper ones.

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Tue Feb 19 2013, 18:50

Its brass? The one one it looks like copper Suspect could be a while though, stripping it completely...
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Tue Feb 19 2013, 20:54

Breif painting question: I've almost fully stripped the flywheel (it weighs a ton! (35kg...)) but there is still some blobs of red oxide primer here and there. Does it all need to come off even if I will reprime and paint it?
Thanks!
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by Smitty on Tue Feb 19 2013, 21:21

bradders wrote:Its brass? The one one it looks like copper Suspect could be a while though, stripping it completely...
James

Bradders,

Can't see it being brass, but copper is what the originals were and are still. Wouldn't hurt to check for water in the oil as well as a headgasket problem may have contaminated it. Wouldn't want to use it again if it was. I'd buy new oil if it was indeed contaminated.

Cheers, John.

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Tue Feb 19 2013, 21:24

John
The oil did come out grey with the occasional oil coloured blotch here and there... Before running it though it was clean so there could be a problem there I guess...
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by jay on Wed Feb 20 2013, 17:20

yeah sorry meant copper gasket..you can reuse them ones as well..

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Wed Feb 20 2013, 18:14

But if there was alot of water in the cylinder then is it worth it?
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by davelister on Wed Feb 20 2013, 19:02

bradders wrote:Breif painting question: I've almost fully stripped the flywheel (it weighs a ton! (35kg...)) but there is still some blobs of red oxide primer here and there. Does it all need to come off even if I will reprime and paint it?
Thanks!
James


depends if you want to see them or if you want a smooth paint job. if they stand proud a couple of mm it will take a few coats of paint to cover them so you cant see them sticking out. a good paint job starts with the prep.dont rush things,take you're time and get things right from the start.


mat

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by billypurves on Wed Feb 20 2013, 19:33

You could try to re anneal the gasket if it is not too bad by firing it in a very hot oven (when the wife is out) letting it get very hot and quenching it in the sink in cold water.......all before she gets back!!

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by Andrew1971 on Wed Feb 20 2013, 19:38

Dont forget the air freshner just in case Smile Smile

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Wed Feb 20 2013, 19:42

billypurves wrote:You could try to re anneal the gasket if it is not too bad by firing it in a very hot oven
A very hot oven? 200*C? Or mini blowtorch...?
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by billypurves on Wed Feb 20 2013, 20:29

You want the copper red hot then quench.

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Wed Feb 20 2013, 20:30

billypurves wrote:You want the copper red hot then quench.

Oh, that hot... That could be interesting...

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by davelister on Wed Feb 20 2013, 20:42

stationary engine parts (can find them on ebay) sell the copper gasket for 13.99 with free p+p,a lot less hastle and its new.

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Wed Feb 20 2013, 20:46

I'll have a look, I think I'll try heating the old one first but that probably won't work out... Also does anyone know how to remove both sides of the crankcase? (flywheel and starter side)
Thanks!

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by nutgone on Wed Feb 20 2013, 23:30

An oven won't get copper hot enough to anneal it, you need a flame. The copper must be heated to a uniform cherry red. It doesn't necessarily need to be quenched (in an engineering sense "annealing" is leaving to cool naturally, but with gaskets it's better to quench as it also helps to clean the copper). Maybe under a good gas grill might be hot enough, but I wouldn't have thought a normal household oven is up to it.

The main problem with annealing larger gaskets is getting the entire gasket to the same temperature at the same time. You could do it in sections, but I don't know how successful this would be.

Also, be careful when it is annealed as it turns the copper very very soft (if you've done it right), & they are very easy to bend & kink afterwards.

Personally I think Stationaryengineparts.com price for a gasket is a bit of a rip off (but I'm not their greatest fan anyway, so I could be biased). I would rather go for a copper composite one from somewhere else for about a fiver, I mean if it's done right you shouldn't need to re-use it.

I would say chuck that oil, it should never be grey. Get rid, get the inspection plate off & give it a good clean out in there. Possibly even invest in some flushing oil, then when it's back together run it for 10-30 minutes on the flushing oil, drain then refill with your normal running oil. Once it has emulsified with the water it is pretty useless & it needs to go or it could contaminate the next oil you put in there. Also, emulsified oil can corrode metal where it settles.

Give the annealing a try though, I find a gas cooker ring is best. Remember- cherry red then quench. It could save you a few quid. If the gasket has any damage then don't waste your time. (Also, you can only quench solid copper gaskets. If it's a composite one, IE: something like asbestos sandwiched between 2 thin slivers of copper, then don't even try).

Make sure both mating faces are nice & clean & dry. They should be shiny, with no oil grease or anything else (especially no compounds). I usually scrape (carefully) the surfaces clean then finish off with some P500 wet & dry paper with plenty of lubrication (like WD40 spray or similar, it helps the abrasive paper & stops it clogging up), then clean off with clean dry rag to remove the residue. Tighten the bolts down in the correct order (starting from the middle & working out towards the edges) & the job should be a success.

Think that's about it. Best of luck. cheers

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Thu Feb 21 2013, 08:12

Thanks Nuts! That could prove very useful! I'm not entirely sure if the gasket is just copper or not, I'll have a look. I've never seen oil gone hey before but that may be because I've never worked on a water cooled engine before... Now I have it seems that the head gasket is fairly important at not turning the engine into a wreck!

I did have a look at the gasket on stationary engine parts and it does seem a little expensive so I can only hope that the gasket I've got is solid copper...
Thanks again for all your help
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

Post by bradders on Sat Feb 23 2013, 23:24

Trying to strip down the crank case and I've managed to get part of the flywheel side cover off (the small cover with a metal thing on the shaft behind it) but I can't get the actual housing to move! Also I can't get the side of the case with the starter dog on to move either... Does anyone know how to remove them?
Thanks
James

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Re: Lister D Questions

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