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Lister D 169332

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Lister D 169332

Post by mm5aho on Wed Mar 06 2013, 21:23

In another thread I asked questions about Lister D's vapouriser. (thanks for help). Someone suggested I should post some pix of the restoration, so here goes.
Sorry I forgot to take pix of the engine before starting, but I'll try to get some of the various stages.

Firstly that vapouriser. Here is is, dismounted, from both front and back.
The inlet and exhaust end up swapped about as a result of this device which is bolted onto the head ports.





Here's the block with head off. A little bit cleaned up so far.



Looking straight down on the piston top. Note its not a flat top piston, which suggests the vapouriser was added later perhaps?



A pretty scruffy looking beast at this stage, but not as bad as some I'm sure.



Head off and on the bench. Most of the old paint off at this stage, and behold, some logos and original wording underneath!



Magneto and other bits on the bench. Hope I can figure out where it all goes back to!


The petrol tank. There was a hole in it, which had been patched with fibreglass or something. Was not leaking, but looked hideous, so I pulled that off, sanded back and soldered a copper patch on - about the size of a 20p piece. Then cleaned it up and painted. I intend to paint the engine this colour later for 2 reasons. 1. I have the paint already and its good stuff. 2. I'm a non-conformist !


Head clean up, decoked, valves ground and ready to re-assemble.


Here's my home made valve spring compressor. Easy to slip the pins in using this. Harder though to hold this in one hand, slip the pin in with the other, and take the picture with my third hand!


Special block to retain valves while upending the head to fit the springs.



I'll try to update this as I go. This is not a full time project, I work about 50 hours a week normally, so only have an hour some evenings, and perhaps a Saturday to do anything on this.


Last edited by mm5aho on Thu Mar 07 2013, 08:07; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by steve w on Thu Mar 07 2013, 07:02

Great pics - i have another lister that i am thinking of stripping down this summer and had thought of painting it a different colour i was thinking deep red or black. the engine looks in good shape with no broken studs, i am sure mine wont look so good,

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Thu Mar 07 2013, 12:21

Great pics that's for showing us and it looks as if your doing a first class job, keep up the great work.

Stu.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by mm5aho on Sun Mar 10 2013, 16:27

I'm having difficulty getting the flywheel off the shaft.
The key seems a bit rusted in. Made a puller arrangement, but that didn't get it off before breaking.

Any experienced tips for this task?

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by steve w on Sun Mar 10 2013, 18:30

mm5aho wrote:I'm having difficulty getting the flywheel off the shaft.
The key seems a bit rusted in. Made a puller arrangement, but that didn't get it off before breaking.

Any experienced tips for this task?

will be interesting to see what others suggest as i also have a key suck on a lister thats holding a chain cog on.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by Smitty on Sun Mar 10 2013, 18:31

mm5aho wrote:I'm having difficulty getting the flywheel off the shaft.
The key seems a bit rusted in. Made a puller arrangement, but that didn't get it off before breaking.

Any experienced tips for this task?

Hello mm5aho,

I just read your thread since yesterday and will have to be careful to keep you and Biomed separated as both your names are Geoff lol.

I just went through the flywheel bit and had a hard time with it also.
When you say you didn't get it off before breaking, do you mean you broke the puller or the Gib?

If you broke the gib key, you have a bit more work ahead as far as I can tell from other posters, as the key itself is about 3-1/8th inch long without the head, and if the head is gone, drilling, tapping and pulling it out that way seems the only way to do that.

I am assuming that you meant it was the puller that broke.

If that's what it is, I can tell you that I had a very tough time with my key and the wheel also, as the key took quite some hammering and oiling along with some heat on the wheel hub to even make it move after a few days, and then it took hard work and pounding with a wedge setup to extract every bit of it right to the end, a millimeter at a time!

The fitter that filed, ground and fitted the key was good at what he did for sure, and age may have had something to do with it also Rolling Eyes

This is not to discourage you, but rather to give you a good idea as to how stuck it can be in there, and caution you as to possible damage you don't need.

Eventually mine came out in one piece and then I had the flywheel to contend with.
It was also a hard go on that!

I was fortunate to be able to use an hydraulic press to push out the shaft from the wheel, otherwise I would have had a heck of a time to separate mine also, as it was on there good as well.

The only thing I can advise you with is to get the tool for key extraction as that would probably have worked better for me than the way I did it with a wedge and a BIG hammer.
The key removal tool is found at Stationary engines site, and of course if you have the means or friends with a shop you can easily make one yourself.
That would take care of the key problem.

The flywheel itself seems to be easier according to most here, although mine was stuck to stay there if it wasn't for some help from the press I had use of, I mean it was stuck good!

There are a few ways you can progress with the wheel, and one is to bounce the shaft on a hardwood or maybe a metal surface as long as you protect the end of the shaft with a softer metal than the shaft, and make the inertia of the falling weight of the wheel work for you to slide the wheel off that way.

Another is to secure the wheel in a way so that you can hammer the shaft end with a heavy hammer to let the shaft do the dropping out.
Again care needs to be taken not to damage and widen the end of the shaft as the wheel has to pass by the end you're pounding on, and the shaft is not a seriously hardened one, if at all, on that end.

Not much for info here but It may help and I hope it does.

Regards, John.





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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by Smitty on Sun Mar 10 2013, 18:48

steve w wrote:
mm5aho wrote:I'm having difficulty getting the flywheel off the shaft.
The key seems a bit rusted in. Made a puller arrangement, but that didn't get it off before breaking.

Any experienced tips for this task?

will be interesting to see what others suggest as i also have a key suck on a lister thats holding a chain cog on.

Hi Steve,

No experience on the sprockets for a "D" mate, but it may be a good idea to squirt some penetrating oil on it or a thin oil with some spirits to let it soak in advance of some more experienced advice, a bit of heat from time to time will draw the oil in and can do wonders for it coming off more easily, you'd be a step ahead with it, and if not needed nothing lost.

Regards, John.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by steve w on Sun Mar 10 2013, 18:52

cheers John, one thing i am learning about engines is - oil oil oil Very Happy i seem to have more oil rags in the workshop than anything else then once in a while one goes on the log burner - they burn great for ages Smile

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by mm5aho on Sun Mar 10 2013, 20:30

It was the puller that I broke.
I made a gib key puller, it fitted over the end tab on the key, and exterted a force along the length of the key away from the flyywheel.
But the key beat the tool.
Problem with the key is getting any swing at it. The flywheel is in the way!

I'm trying to extract the flywheel from the engine without taking the shaft out. I have a 14" flywheel.

I think that if I get the key out, then I'll make a giant Puller. A heavy piece of 50mm SHS with a big bolt in middle to wind against end of shaft while reacting against a catch over the edges of the flywheel. I'll have a go making that up this week some night.

Had to make shims to get the timing chain at reasonable tightness. Done that, and timedpoints. Valves set and good compression now.
Had a devil of a job getting the carb apart and cleaned up. (well, my son did that bit - he was visiting the weekend).

Took all the moveable plates, covers etc off and shotblasted them, and primed. So they're ready for painting.

Coming together, will take some more pix next week.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Mon Mar 11 2013, 11:33

Sorry to have to say this but again it's patients you need, you need to soak it everyday with a good releasing oil, try a bit of heat to see if you can get the oil to soak in. I don't know what the puller was like that you made but there's one sells on ebay, it's 2 thick steel plates with the center on one plate the same size as the shaft and a groove cut out so you can slide it past the gib key head then turn it, the other plate has 2 holes drilled in it where bolts pass through it into to threaded holes on the first plate. Hope that makes sense LOL.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by mm5aho on Mon Mar 11 2013, 21:28

Stu,


your description of the gib key puller is enough for me to make one from - thanks.
I started tonight making a gear puller for a 14" flywheel. Bit of cutting, bit of welding, but then got too cold and came inside. I do have a gas heater in my shed, but it would take about a year to thaw it out at today's temp of about -2C.

For a puller for the flywheel, I've an 18" length of 50x50mm SHS, with a single 20mm bolt through the centre. Near each end (spaced just over 14" ) two flat bar lugs that will fit round the back of the flywheel.
The centre bolt runs through the box section and a nut welded to a reinforced part of the steel SHS. The bolt will screw into this against the end of the engine shaft, while pulling the flywheel from behind. (same as any gear puller, just much bigger).

Your key puller idea of a plate with hole though and slot for key sounds perfect. Pull that against the end of the shaft and it should pull the gib key. I've started the penetrating oil treatment already.

I had a good laugh at your typo "Sorry to have to say this but again it's patients you need".
If I spend too much time out there in that cold workshop, I'll be a patient! (not sure which hospital, but one specialising in frostbite). Then I'd certainly have to be a patient patient, one with patience. (Isn't English fun?)


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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Tue Mar 12 2013, 14:04

Geoff, English was never my strong point so I tend to try and have the words that others will understand. Laughing Laughing Thing is I normally spell check my work but the link I have is on my other pc which my wife is using coz her's has packed in. I'm not going to worry to much until Bill Gates sends out the spelling police. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Geoff glad you should be able to make that puller, when there for sale on ebay the sell for £20-£25 so your saving a bit by making one.
Would it be possable to see a pic of your flywheel puller (if it works) Laughing Laughing Laughing and a step to step guide on building one. As it looks we now have another D to be restored it could come in very handy for others.

Stu.

PS This was wrote without the use of a spell check or a safety net. :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol:

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Flywheel puller

Post by biomed32uk on Tue Mar 12 2013, 17:11

Another Geoff here, and I have just been through the flywheel removal procedure.

After the advice here, before any attempt at removing flywheel or keys I was feeding it plus gas for a couple of weeks. I actually tipped the engine over slightly, so as to tip the key way towards the flywheel, and then filled the key was up with the plus gas, that way it tips into it and runs in, and it had when I removed it.

I also played some very gentle and well spread heat onto the flywheel hub.

The puller I made is below, I am still waiting for a couple of hooks to be cut from half inch plate, I wound a couple of lifting straps round this bar and the flywheel, it pulled off a treat, I am sure with a couple of solid hooks would have been even more effective, it went with quite a crack as it shifted.

I got the channel iron of of ebay for about £7, that will take some bending, the large studding and nuts i had in the workshop laying around - knew it would be useful one day !.


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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Wed Mar 13 2013, 12:05

Well done another Geoff Laughing glad to see someone is having a bit of luck on there side or should that be engineering skills to make a puller that looks very simple and easy to make, yet very effective. With that type of puller once you have screwed it in and have pressure on it give the center bolt a whack with a hammer, it could sping it off without having to wind it off with the bolt.

For bits of scrap metal I go to the re-cycle centre (tip) scrapyards or small engineering works. The engineering place I go to is spot on I can get most things I've wanted out of there scrap skip but I have had him order in a length of inch x inch x 4metres angle iron and got it at trade price, Very Happy for most of the other stuff it's normally a few quid or a jar of coffee. I did talk to him about making some gib key removers but he went on holiday and I never got back to finish sorting them out. My plan was to see how much he could make them for and sell them on here at cost. Maybe I'll have another look into it.

Stu.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by biomed32uk on Wed Mar 13 2013, 19:29

Yes, its built to last I hope and not break.

My mate owns a welding and fab business so he is cutting the legs out for me. I actually cad designed this one out, rather than on the back of a fag packet (not that I smoke), once I have got them I can always pass the drawing on, may be useful to others.

Have got to grind the nut off though, I tacked it on and it pulled it up, I didn't notice and welded it up, and the bolt runs at a slight angle.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Thu Mar 14 2013, 11:33

Geoff I found another design for a gib key remover, very easy to make your own.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121080449076?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

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key remover

Post by biomed32uk on Thu Mar 14 2013, 12:25

Thats exactly like the one I made, its where I got the idea from. A lump of three inch bar and it worked treat.

See my original thread and the pics are in there.

As said I had been feeding it plus gas, and some gentle warmth.

Geoff.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Thu Mar 14 2013, 12:43

Geoff thanks for your input and I'll let you get back to your thread. I just wanted to show others that pullers etc can be made at home out of scrap rather then spend a lot of money on buying the correct tools that may or may not do the job.

Stu.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by mm5aho on Fri Mar 15 2013, 08:00

I made a similar flywheel puller for my 14" FW. Made mine of box section, a large bolt through the centre (a nut welded on and hole through box section), and two flat bar legs 14" apart either side of centre, and each with small returns on them to grip far side of the flywheel.

But first I had to get the stuck gibkey out.
I found a small piece of 8mm thick plate, about 120mm square. Dilled a 38mm hole though the centre, and cut a 6x6mm slot in one side of that. The cut a small part of the circumference of that hole out to 41mm adjoining the 6mm slot.
Then two holes away from this central large hole, and welded nuts over the holes, to take two larger bolts

Slipping the plate over the driveshaft, such that the 6mm slot lines up with the key and goes over it, then rotate the plate such that the 41mm part sits behind the key head. Then wind in the bolts with a socket which forces the plate away from the flywheel. The plate catches the back of the key head forcing the key out. Bit of heat, but more WD40 and the key smoothly came out.

Key out, so change to flywheel puller and that was easy!

I've now got the flywheel on the bench, sanded it back, and found the Z mark I thought wasn't there, and various other marks too!


Mabe some pictures over the weekend.

I quite like the look of the polished steel flwheels I see in some peoples pictures. How to preserve it from rusting? Do you varnish them? Oil them? or what?

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Fri Mar 15 2013, 13:15

Geoff the engine number is normally on the flywheel so you can check it with the brass plate to see if it's a ringer Laughing Laughing Laughing

Sounds like your pullers work a trat, there is a simple gib key remover, shaped like a new moon ( this kind of shape ) ) but it is sort of pointed at one end getting thicker as it goes out. You slide it behind the gib key and hit it with a hammer, as the remover gets knocked in it gets wider forcing the gib key out. There is a pic of one somewhere on the forum, I think Pete has one like that he uses and he says it works very well.

The flywheel normally has a hin coat of oil on it the cling film wrapped over it when it's stored.
Stu.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by mm5aho on Sat Mar 16 2013, 16:58

Here's a photographic update on this Lister D.

I made this...


to pull the gib key.
I'd previously soaked it a bit with WD40 and applied some heat. Came off OK

The shaft looks in reasonable shape.


Then I made this..

to pull the flywheel.

After cleaning the flywheel up, and painting some parts of it, it looks like this..



Carburettor looks like this now..


and after the first painting, the engine is looking like this..


and from other side like this..



So what's left?
Another coat of paint, and reassembly, then mount on the new trolley, and run it up.


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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by Smitty on Sat Mar 16 2013, 18:26

mm5aho wrote:Here's a photographic update on this Lister D.

I made this...


to pull the gib key.
I'd previously soaked it a bit with WD40 and applied some heat. Came off OK

The shaft looks in reasonable shape.


Then I made this..

to pull the flywheel.

After cleaning the flywheel up, and painting some parts of it, it looks like this..



Carburettor looks like this now..


and after the first painting, the engine is looking like this..


and from other side like this..



So what's left?
Another coat of paint, and reassembly, then mount on the new trolley, and run it up.


Very ingenuitive,

I think it is good that we get to use our heads to come up with remedies that work, you certainly had no problem to visualise and build what you thought might work!

The blue paint is different, and to each his own, I would pick black before blue lol, but never the less, a quick and successful job,

Regards, John.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by Andrew1971 on Sat Mar 16 2013, 19:22

She look's good in blue good work :thumbup: :thumbup:
Soon be running again Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by stationary stu on Sun Mar 17 2013, 13:33

Looking good Geoff, you should have it up and running very soon. Do you know what kind of trolley you'll be building?

Stu.

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Re: Lister D 169332

Post by mm5aho on Sun Mar 17 2013, 14:58

Stu

I've started building the trolley.
I used a fence post, 100x100mm timber, cut to lengths 750mm, ends champhered, and spaced apart to total width of 320mm.
Four mounting bolts for the Lister, making the engine about central on the length of the trolley.
I have four cast iron wheels, and will mount them underneath. I have one axle for two of them, but need to make another axle.

So, need to get that finished off and running before I get distracted by the next one! (I bid on another D on Ebay, so have a non-runner for £25.05 to collect sometime this week or next weekend)

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Re: Lister D 169332

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