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Petter A1 On Gas

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Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Thu Mar 14 2013, 15:15

Hi All
This is the first test of petter a1 running on gas here's the link

http://youtu.be/aBWiAsjZYAo

The donor solex carb was buggered so used the top half drilled a hole where the screw with spring was just big enough to poke a bit off copper pipe (brake pipe) through. A length of rubber pipe i had spare + a crappy blow torch used + that's it. I was suprised it actually worked Very Happy Very Happy And now making it better and permanent. I will update the more i do.
Many Thank's
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by blackvanman on Thu Mar 14 2013, 15:52

Andrew1971 wrote:Hi All
This is the first test of petter a1 running on gas here's the link

http://youtu.be/aBWiAsjZYAo

The donor solex carb was buggered so used the top half drilled a hole where the screw with spring was just big enough to poke a bit off copper pipe (brake pipe) through. A length of rubber pipe i had spare + a crappy blow torch used + that's it. I was suprised it actually worked Very Happy Very Happy And now making it better and permanent. I will update the more i do.
Many Thank's
Andrew
great Smile
although it won't take long for that butane cartridge to freeze Very Happy
Did I hear at the end "Flywheels moving again!"? Smile

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Thu Mar 14 2013, 16:10

Yes the flywheel does move need to secure it more any suggestion's Smile Smile
Before the video was taken it was running for 10min ish Smile
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Fri Mar 15 2013, 13:20

Well done Andrew never heard of anyone converting to gas, although I do have a Villiers genny that runs on gas but this was a factory jobbie.
I take it you'd have to make all the joints gas proof and did you have to do anything with the carb, plug or timing.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Fri Mar 15 2013, 13:31

Hi Stu Thanks for the reply.
The joint's are soon going to be fully gas tight. It was a test to see if it would work and does so now be doing a proper job. Smile Smile
The timing and the plug i have not touched since running on petrol. I only drilled one hole for the pipe that's it. It was very easy to do the hardest job will be getting to run good. I will post more pic's when i have taken some lol! lol!
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Fri Mar 15 2013, 13:38

Yes please keep the pics and info coming as this is very interesting.

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Fri Mar 15 2013, 14:17

Hi All
Here's some pic's of what's left of the carb all i needed was the top part with the butterfly valve. lurl=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=12&u=18093342][/url] That's where that brass screw the one with a tapered end went in.

Drilled a hole all the way through and that's came out.


That's where the gas pipe goes it some copper brake pipe. it need's to be fixed and made gas tight.

Hope that help's with how i have done it
Many Thanks
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by glowes3 on Sat Mar 16 2013, 05:35

Interesting Andrew. You might be onto something - I've got a couple of old engines with carbies that leak more petrol then they burn in the engine.
Should run nice and clean.
I wonder how many hours to the canister you'll get at a rally?
Will be waiting for the final report on your experiment.
Regards Graeme

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sat Mar 16 2013, 08:16

Hi Glowes3
Carb's that leak fuel no matter what i did it just coming out Sad Sad that's main reason i am doing this.
All so i am a newbie at doing this sort of thing Smile On a plus side i have not gone BANG yet affraid affraid
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Sat Mar 16 2013, 12:06

glowes3 wrote:Interesting Andrew. You might be onto something - I've got a couple of old engines with carbies that leak more petrol then they burn in the engine.
Should run nice and clean.
I wonder how many hours to the canister you'll get at a rally?
Will be waiting for the final report on your experiment.
Regards Graeme

Graeme it's a cracking idea if you've got an engine but the carb has had it and can't be repaired. As for the gas canister you could use any L.P.G. which come in large bottles/containers, you should be able to buy a large gas and it could last for years as a engine shouldn't use a lot. As long as you don't have any leaks it should be safe to use, check all the joints with washing up soap/liquid, if it bubbles then it's leaking Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sat Mar 16 2013, 13:06

Yeah, I think you need to be a bit careful here as gas engines tend to have a different type of regulator. The problems come when you run off load, as the throttle closes you will end up getting a build up of un-burned gas, this needs to go somewhere, so will collect at the lowest point.

I know you can convert old style regulators (the ones you can take apart) & by adding a spring in the right place they are converted to an "on demand" regulator.

If this was to be running at a fixed rate, with a fixed load, then in theory you could set it up to be safe, but you would still need a richer mixture for starting purposes.

Don't let me dampen your fun though, I'm not usually the safety conscious one, & am not usually phased by gas leaks etc. As long as there's plenty of ventilation to atmosphere then you'll be fine, but do be careful with backfire & the possibility of flames travelling back to the bottle. It's not difficult to make your own flash-back arrestor to stop this happening. A simple bubble chamber would do.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Sat Mar 16 2013, 13:17

I think with the size of bottle he's using there shouldn't be much of a problem about pressure but you do need a regulator on the supply if you use a bigger gas bottle. Here's a pic of my gas Villiers and you can see the regulator on the top of the engine.



Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sat Mar 16 2013, 13:38

It's not about pressure though Stu, that regulator in the picture you post is very different to the normal type of regulator you might use on a barbecue or caravan. You see, the normal regulator just feeds a constant gas supply, so if you run an engine off this there is nothing to tell it when to start, when to stop or when to vary the amount of gas it is supplying. So the gas will just keep flowing no matter what, it will build up in the carb, then in the air filter (if it has one) & every so often this gas could go pop (or BANG!)

You see an engine regulator is designed to run in the opposite way, when the throttle is opened it gives out gas, when the throttle closes the gas supply diminishes.

This is fine for a tinkering project in the garden, but I would guess that as soon as a load is applied the engine will probably just stall anyway, & I certainly wouldn't want to put it on a rallyfield in front of the public. Even small gas canisters can get the flame travel back up inside them. & I doubt the marshals would be too happy about a Heath Robinson gas conversion, not to mention your neighbours! (not too sure the insurance company would like it too much either).

If you're interested in running engines off gas there's plenty of good info out there, it's quite easy to research. But please don't get engine regulators mixed up with the normal ones you might find on your caravan or barbecue.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sat Mar 16 2013, 14:47

Hi All Thanks for the reply's
What i am doing is for my use only so no rally's as i have no car.
Out of 2 petter A1 i would like 1 to run both carb's are buggered.
This will most likely take a while. I am not sure how far to go with this project as yet.
Yes been searching the net for idea's on how to do what i would like to do.
At the moment it's going to be running fixed speed + no load just to get it running again.
Many Thank's
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sat Mar 16 2013, 14:52

No doubt you know what you're up to Andrew, I'm sure you're being safe. Looks like a very good experiment, might have to have a go myself next time I get an engine with a knackered carb.

ATM I'm still on knackered magnetos. Very Happy

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sat Mar 16 2013, 15:04

Finger's crossed she might run again tomorrow. I have clean all gasket surface's made one gasket + another bit of pipe. The pipe is now stuck in waiting for it to harden then should gas tight enough Laughing Laughing
Yes very care full when using gas. Ohh yes forgot to say i am using these gas cartridge's because i can't get a big bottle as yet that i can get home.
Andrew

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I will see if i can get another vid of her running finger's crossed better than the first Very Happy Very Happy


Last edited by Andrew1971 on Sat Mar 16 2013, 19:24; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sat Mar 16 2013, 16:15

You don't need to be that careful with LPG, people tend to worry too much with it. Only in enclosed spaces really. As long as there's ample ventilation, it should be safe enough. The main danger with LPG is any "well" type structures where the gas can pool.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sun Mar 17 2013, 14:06

Hi All
Got her running again she was even more fussy about the gas setting + how much the butterfly valve is open
took about 20mins figure that one out. There's a few more mod's i have planed to do. I will add pic's on each mod
and hope fully a video when i get cam corder back.
1) Is to make some thing for an air filter.
2) Get a regulator to get a better more even gas flow.
3) Try again + see what happen's
Many Thank's
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 17 2013, 17:35

I saw the perfect regulator at a stationary engine meet/bring & buy event today & thought of you. Sadly I was penniless today, so couldn't even buy it on the off chance.

It was an old butane regulator which could be taken apart. There's instructions on how to convert them somewhere else on line (either on another forum or somewhere else, wouldn't be difficult to find).

Might be worth keeping your eyes open around junk shops & eBay etc, but probably a good idea to find out how they are converted first. I'll have a look later & see if I can find a link for you (won't post it up here if it's off a rival forum though).

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sun Mar 17 2013, 18:46

Cheer's Nut's
Just pm me the link if needed. I am going round where i live to see if i can get a gas bottle most likely blue one's propane or calor i think that will make a difference Very Happy Very Happy
Many Thank's
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 17 2013, 19:11

Red one's slightly better, as that's propane, but it won't make much difference, blue will work too. I'll see if I can dig out a link for you tonight or tomorrow.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sun Mar 17 2013, 19:22

Cheer's Nut's thank you :thumbup: :thumbup:
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Mon Mar 18 2013, 13:09

Andrew I've pick up gas bottles from the re-cycling centre (tip) for a fiver, it doesn't matter about the size as they can alter to the size you need when you get a refill without any extra cost.

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Mon Mar 18 2013, 13:14

Cheer's Stu never thought of recycling center i will try them see what happens :thumbup: :thumbup:
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by fowlerfan on Mon Mar 18 2013, 13:25

Interesting thread (and good video by the way !)

I have a gas project waiting in the restoration queue but have already picked up the regulator that is used with engines. Its a Garretson KN demand valve. Some info below...

http://www.baldor.com/pdf/manuals/GarretKN.pdf

http://www.carbturbo.com/installation.pdf

You can pick up these KN valves on Ebay for £25 - 30 if you are lucky, thats where I got mine.

Hope thats of interest, Cheers Dave

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