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Petter A1 On Gas

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Mon Mar 18 2013, 14:30

Cheer's Dave for the link's now i more of what to look for :thumbup: :thumbup:
Well came home from work me think's fire up the petter a1 no sign of life. Mad
I have found the problem some gnome's have nicked my box of spark's for the magneto no life at all !!
Now i have go to put me other box of spark's on. I get i nice blue spark this is the one with no impulse in it Sad
Wait till i get my hand's on then spark gnome's there going to be so affraid affraid affraid
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Mon Mar 18 2013, 15:24

Freecycle & freegle are also good for gas bottles.

You also sometimes find them on eBay. I sold a couple on eBay, both big ones (although, like Stu says, it makes no difference, as long as you take them to a Calor centre, some smaller outlets won't exchange different sizes, as they are under no obligation to & if their bottle storage is limited they don't like to do it, so it's worth checking first). The ones I sold, first one went for over £20, the other one sold for £1 (it cost me more to list it!) So it could be worth looking there too.

But if you're a freecycle or freegle member it's worth putting out a wanted ad, there's usually someone who's got one they don't want, sometimes you'll even get a full one (I did, & it was a big'un as well, did my caravanning all year on that Very Happy ). Mind you, joining freegle & freecycle doesn't cost anything.

I'm going to look for that regulator info now, before I forget again!

P.S. You have PM.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by kevjhnsn on Tue Mar 19 2013, 03:06

andrew
nice to see you going to do a petter on gas ,i use gas for the first runs on air cooled engines if i can, as the explosion is lower than petrol ,
but if you do get it on gas should be cheaper than petrol to run for the day i would think mate.
heres my little jap 2s gas engine but didnt have the regulator with it so i used a wilesco/mamod lighter gas tank and pipe to the gas carb
just to see if it would run
so heres my swan vesta gas converted jap 2s

heres a sterling engine i made that runs of gas heating also Smile


not being sarky , just adding somthing else that will go on gas while were on the topic

kev

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Tue Mar 19 2013, 14:07

Andrew I saw this and thought you might like to see an open crank running on gas.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130870026448?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Stu.


Last edited by stationary stu on Wed Mar 20 2013, 13:02; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Tue Mar 19 2013, 17:49

Hi All
I have had nothing but trouble from the engine today. I put on the other magneto on + it just would not run
no matter what i tried i would fire a few time's that's all i got so back to the start Sad Sad
On a plus side i can now get gas bottles the biggest on was £28 can't remember how big Laughing Laughing
So waiting till i get paid + get a gas bottle and start again !!
It will run on gas bitch won't beat me lol! lol!
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by blackvanman on Tue Mar 19 2013, 18:30

stationary stu wrote:Well done Andrew never heard of anyone converting to gas, although I do have a Villiers genny that runs on gas but this was a factory jobbie.
I take it you'd have to make all the joints gas proof and did you have to do anything with the carb, plug or timing.

Stu.
Dad converted his little pet m type years ago, runs bloody well on propane Smile

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Wed Mar 20 2013, 13:05

Andy it's good to see others have tried this in the past just with this thread being live (so to speak) we can find out all the good and bad parts about the conversion.

Stu.

PS this is the link from my last post, it got lost somewhere :chin: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130870026448?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Thu Mar 21 2013, 15:11

Hi All
Thank's for the reply's. Had another play today and still not running but i have no idea why it is not. I have double checked triple checked the timing for the spark and it's all appear's to be correct the only difference is this mag has no impulse if that make's difference. I had another look at the other mag point's look fine. How do you test a condenser + how to test the coil there the only thing's i can't do. So right now i am at a loss on what to do.
2 Petter A1 and neither run !! Sad
Andrew

PS
I am tempted to hot bulb her just need find some to make one up.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Thu Mar 21 2013, 17:00

You can test the coil with a normal multimeter. If you want to know how (& have a multimeter) just ask & I'll talk you through it.

To properly test a condenser you really need an insulation resistance tester, otherwise known as a "megger". The best test though is to use a known good condenser. Somewhere (in one of my threads) I've got instructions on how to remove the guts from one of these old Wico A condensers & solder in a normal capacitor. If you're interested in this I can also talk you through it & tell you which capacitors to go for. (they're about £2 or £3 for 5 pieces on eBay, so not expensive, & I can tell you they work well, could probably even post you one if you didn't want to buy 5 of them).

Condensers can be the cause of a lot of different spark problems. These Wico A magnetos usually have good coils, although they are getting a bit long in the tooth now. If it's been running with a massive plug gap for years & years the coil may well have given up & burned out where the damp has gotten in & caused the wire to corrode. Plug gaps on old mags shouldn't be anything over .020", I gap all mine to .017" to allow for wear & movement (& dodgy measuring on my part). Wico never did produce good condensers though. Definitely don't buy new-old-stock condensers, they're usually no good as they are the old fashioned oil soaked paper type. The even older mica ones seem to last for ever, but the oil paper ones usually end up in the bin after testing, even new-old-stock examples.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Thu Mar 21 2013, 19:19

Cheer's for the reply Nut's
Due to every thing getting old now i thought using the point's in the mag wire a new condenser and use a bike coil but would need a battery i should be able to get them quite easy. But i am open to other suggestion's.
I am thinking the condenser + coil is buggered it just suddenly stopped.
Nut's do you think i should try the condenser/capatictor trick. I would like to get going again so i can carry on.
Many Thanks
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Thu Mar 21 2013, 19:34

If you've got a multimeter you can test the coil easy. I would say try a new condenser before you give up on the coil. Coil's aren't usually the problem with these mags, the condensers are more often at fault.

If you know how to solder, & have tinkered with very basic electronics before, you can solder in a new capacitor where they old condenser was. If it's the Bakelite condenser it's easy to pull the guts out, keep hold of the little mica backing plate & the brass terminals & solder a 330nF 400v capacitor in there. Bend the wires to suit, so the Bakelite cover fits in place, the little mica back plate ensures no shorting out against the metal of the mag.

If you can be bothered you can "pot" the whole thing in place (set the new cap inside the old Bakelite case) with some silicone sealant or silicone instant gasket. I never bothered myself, as it's easy enough to juggle it all back in there.

I could probably dig up some pics if needed. Wouldn't take long. Think it was on my JAP model 3 resto thread (called "Nutgone's Little JAP").

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Fri Mar 22 2013, 13:57

Nuts if you don't mind doing a thread in the reference section it could be made sticky so it's easy to pint anyone else in the right direction.
Maybe if you could do it for those that are not to electrically minded would be a great help.
I know this is a big task but it would help a lot of guys that don't have a clue about these things, me included.

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Fri Mar 22 2013, 17:14

stationary stu wrote:Nuts if you don't mind doing a thread in the reference section it could be made sticky so it's easy to pint anyone else in the right direction.
Maybe if you could do it for those that are not to electrically minded would be a great help.
I know this is a big task but it would help a lot of guys that don't have a clue about these things, me included.

Stu.

OK Stu. I will knock something up over the next few days & make up a thread. I think I've even got an old condenser which needs doing & I know I've got a couple of capacitors spare, so I'll make one up, take pics & write up a description.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Fri Mar 22 2013, 18:42

Hi Nut's
Like your Jap Model 3. Doing a thread on electric/magneto stuff would be fantastic like Stu said help a lot off people +(me) Very Happy I shall be watching :thumbup: :thumbup:
Many Thank's
Andrew

PS
We will soon get back on topic :stick lol: :stick lol:

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Sat Mar 23 2013, 12:03

Andrew1971 wrote:
Many Thank's
Andrew

PS
We will soon get back on topic :stick lol: :stick lol:

Sorry about going off track on your thread Andrew, would you like me to delete the posts that don't concern your engine?

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sat Mar 23 2013, 19:16

Hi Stu
No just leave as is it's all related to my engine. The joy's of converting old engine's.
I will not be beaten by this magneto i had another look and thought what if it's the condenser.
Then got called to the attic by the woman i found something i forgot i had a kawaski kh125 flywheel + generator
hmm hang on there's a condenser in there out it came then bodged on to the magneto what a big fat spark i got :thumbup: so i going ti fit it tomorrow and see what happen's it should on this it did before finger's crossed.
Many Thank's
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 24 2013, 00:24

Well, I've started a thread (not published on the forum yet) about repairing your own condensers in Wico A mags. It should be all done & published around sunday or monday some time. It might be of some use to you, as the Wico ones also hold the points terminal & oil pad, but if not I will do it anyway, & follow up later with other condensers.

Well, Stu asked, & I thought it was a good idea. I've got the bits sitting about & don't mind taking the time. Very Happy

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Sun Mar 24 2013, 12:53

I see you've made a start Nuts, thanks very much for taking your time to do it. I'm sure it's going to help a lot of people that would be stuck without your help.
Great you've managed to sort out the mag Andrew, looking forward to see how it runs now, see if it will make any difference then before. Very Happy

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Sun Mar 24 2013, 14:50

Hi All
Should have some pic's up tomorrow of the magneto it's a cracking bodge :thumbup:
It run's just as it before with no difference. Very Happy Now i can carry with it now Very Happy Very Happy
I should have the other mod done soon see if that make's a difference Twisted Evil
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 24 2013, 20:41

Good stuff. I'm glad this one is carrying on & not just something you tinkered with one day & lost interest in. Something like this will develop & evolve as you go on, & we'll all learn something from it.

Keep it up. cheers

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Mon Mar 25 2013, 17:50

Hi All
Good going on starting a thread on magneto/electric stuff :thumbup:
Any way a small update + some pic's
Here's the magneto bodge or mod !!



Next a small carb mod i am after the right bit



And the part itself.


And now put on for the pic.



That part is use full in two way's
1) I now have a stub to mount an air filter.
2) It narrow's in the middle for the venturi effect so hope fully might improve running NOT TRIED YET Sad
I do have another small mod to do to the GAS carb as i am now calling it Very Happy Very Happy
It's a case of do a mod then run it see what happen's + then the next mod if no improvement !!
Many Thank's
Andrew

PS
If any body want's what's left of the carb let me know Smile


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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Tue Mar 26 2013, 12:47

Andrew did you find a way to control the engine speed yet or not?

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Tue Mar 26 2013, 14:30

Stu no engine speed control at the moment. Just trying to get it run good enough first with what i have Smile
But i have noticed is when gas cartridge is put in warm water engine speed does increase. lol! lol!
It's all trail+error i have never done this before Smile
I did put on and seal up the venturi part and had it running no improvement. On to the next mod me think's Smile
Many Thank's
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by Andrew1971 on Tue Mar 26 2013, 17:23

Hi All
I had another play and with setup i have now. There is no throttle control you can vary the speed turn gas up tweak the butterfly valve until you get decent running. It does go better with a warm gas cartridge.
She run's better + more even with a small load (rag on the flywheel).
As it is now you cant go any further with the current mod's. The only way i can see now is with the on demand regulator. I am going that route not sure yet.
At the moment i have a running engine as i didn't before due to badly leaking carb.
Right now i am happy with the out come if gas mod Very Happy Very Happy
I hope some one find's this use full + help full Very Happy Very Happy
Many Thank's
Andrew

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

Post by stationary stu on Wed Mar 27 2013, 12:46

Andrew you say your finished now just wait until you have another brainwave and think of something else to try . Laughing Laughing Laughing

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 On Gas

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