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My new toy my jap 2a

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My new toy my jap 2a

Post by Raymond_Hopwood on Sun Apr 28 2013, 19:15

.]want to start with a small thank you to my mentor Mr kevjhnsn for giving me my first engine to get me started in this hobby its very much appreciated so thank you but if you ever want to donate your Amanco it would be welcome :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: any way here are the first pics of my new toy Very Happy and hope to post more.



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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Sun Apr 28 2013, 19:36

They're such good little engines these, far superior to anything Villiers ever knocked out!

My brother & I have had at least a couple of these in our earlier days, they really are fantastic little engines. I really miss our last one, it was in fantastic condition, still in original metallic blue paint.

I've been looking at one on eBay this week, but it's a bit too far & is advertised as "some parts missing", I asked him which parts were missing, & said "are the carb & governor linkage there for instance?"
He replied; "it's the carb & governor linkage that are missing" Rolling Eyes

There was just one picture as well (opposite side to carb) & half a line of description, so some poor sod's likely to buy it thinking it's OK, then get stung. Shame as I would love another one, nice & easy to show.

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by Foden on Sun Apr 28 2013, 20:11

I think that I have three of them kicking about. Definately have a 2A with a Brooke Marine waterpump as I used to enter it at rallies in my wifes name, cannot find it at present though, also there should be a 2S with reduction gearbox (like the one above) in a biscuit tin or two and finally a late 2A with an Alcon pump which I think is currently residing in an old milk churn. Good little engines and pretty reliable, all three of mine have mechanical differences though as they must have improved them as production developed over the years. Actually based on a Pre War American Lauson design with detail differences.

Pete.

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Apr 28 2013, 21:09

well ray
just got you txt about the pics but looks like you figured it out " its the first time is the worst" easyer from then on
this was one of the early engines i bought , but got lost in the shed and never finished, but i thought it was a good little toy to tinker with to see if you have the bug and then the later the collection starts Smile
my engine stock list shows its a 1945 end of war time one , so green maybe found on the engine if made in the war years for the mod
crappy pics as always Very Happy Very Happy :stick lol:
see you in the morning ish
kev

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Sun Apr 28 2013, 22:34

Foden wrote:......... Actually based on a Pre War American Lauson design with detail differences.

Pete.

Pretty sure I've seen one of those, probably on SmokStak, & thought "that looks like a little JAP!"

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thank you

Post by Raymond_Hopwood on Mon Apr 29 2013, 07:48

thank you all for the information as probably most of you are interested in the history of the engines so am i and to fine out that they were once metallic blue is very nice to know but if my wife and kids have anything to say about it its going to be green lol! and if any one ever decides to get rid of any jap engines please message me with pics and price and we can go from there as i am thinking about starting with a jap collection Idea so thank you all again and plan on posting lots of in between pics to keep you all up to date speak soon ray

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by stationary stu on Mon Apr 29 2013, 10:40

Great engine to start with as there easy enough to work on. I like JAP engines and also thought I'd see if I could collect one of each type but when I checked it out theres a lot of different types so decided just to get the odd one and do a small collection. Laughing Laughing Laughing
I've forgot now which I have, think I've 2 x 2a's one stripped ready to have new piston rings fitted which I have. The rest do need a bit more work then that, I've got a 4 and 2 5's. An early 2a can bring big money for such a small engine, one restored and painted can easily bring £75.
Do you know how much reduction you have on the output shaft?

Stu.

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by kevjhnsn on Wed May 01 2013, 02:00

ray was busy washing and wire brushing the gunk off his new toy
hes a sneecky pic i got of the man at work Very Happy

im in trouble when he sees this
kev

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by stationary stu on Wed May 01 2013, 10:48

kevjhnsn wrote:ray was busy washing and wire brushing the gunk off his new toy
hes a sneecky pic i got of the man at work Very Happy

im in trouble when he sees this
kev

I like your bench, you can get them in different hights and lengths you know. Very Happy lol! lol! :stick lol: :stick lol:

Good to see him getting stuck in, I'm suprised Nuts has not noticed that there's what looks like red hermitite sticking the cylinder head on, now this is just what you need on an air cooled engine. :chin: :doh: Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Wed May 01 2013, 12:54

So there is! Well spotted Stu.

It'll soon come off when he restores it though. These had a nice little head gasket, never had any problems with any of mine leaking.

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Cleaning process

Post by Raymond_Hopwood on Wed May 01 2013, 17:02

thanks for the lovely picture you got my best side the back of my head lol and he are some pics so you can see how well its come up and found out the original colour was metallic blue this is what came off it

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu May 02 2013, 02:03

[quote="Raymond_Hopwood"].]want to start with a small thank you to my mentor Mr kevjhnsn for giving me my first engine to get me started in this hobby its very much appreciated so thank you but if you ever want to donate your Amanco it would be welcome :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: any way here are the first pics of my new toy Very Happy and hope to post more.

rays you have 2As scratch you just need the M the N the C and the O and your there mate :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol: :stick lol:
i will defo help you on your path to one ,just may take a couple of years to get there like me
no slacking while im away :chin: " i will dock you wages " :stick Smile p.s cant swear on the forum Very Happy Very Happy
see you after you read this in the morning mate
kev "the gitt from over the way" Very Happy

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Thu May 02 2013, 09:34

That's the same flywheel mag as the Tarpen. (Wico FW)

Make sure the coil isn't loose (that's what killed mine) & it will almost definitely need a new condenser. It's pretty easy to fit a car type one in there. Sure it might work with that condenser, but for how long & how well will it run. I usually change condensers on all my projects these days, as I've never tested one & found it to be anywhere near satisfactory.

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lol

Post by Raymond_Hopwood on Fri May 03 2013, 08:03

lol thanks kev and what wages lol and don't think im going any were soon think im getting addicted to that little jap even started dreaming about it and when i cant get sleep get peeved cause i cant work on cause will wake every on up lol and thanks for the heads up nutgone but were could i get the condenser from any ideas are welcome but im on a budget

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by kevjhnsn on Fri May 03 2013, 08:55

Raymond_Hopwood wrote:lol thanks kev and what wages lol and don't think im going any were soon think im getting addicted to that little jap even started dreaming about it and when i cant get sleep get peeved cause i cant work on cause will wake every on up lol and thanks for the heads up nutgone but were could i get the condenser from any ideas are welcome but im on a budget

watch out ray it looks like your getting the " crankers syndrome" wich also leads to "exhibition" in fields and then it can lead to" open crankers syndrome"
kev

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Condenser

Post by nutgone on Fri May 03 2013, 10:00

A replacement condenser shouldn't cost you any more than a fiver & a bit of tinkering.

Basically, the easiest option is to go into a car spares shop (probably not Halfrauds) & ask for a condenser. If they say they want more info, tell them it's for a Mini (Austin or Morris Mini, NOT the BMW type) or a Morris Minor, make up a year somewhere in the 70s or 80s.

When you get it home you will notice it might be slightly different. I think the one you have has a terminal on the top of it & 2 fixing holes. The new one will have a wire on top & one fixing hole.

Not a problem, join the wire that went to your old condenser to the wire coming out of the new condenser somehow (either crimp terminal or solder, but don't let the bare metal touch the body of the condenser or the metal of the mag, so insulate it well & strap up any loose ends) & fix the condenser in place with one of the fixing screws, leaving the other one done up in it's hole, just sitting there doing nothing (it'll be fine).


The other option is to take your condenser apart & solder a capacitor inside the case. This is a bit more tricky though, & far too long winded for me to go into right now, I did write a thread on it somewhere, I think it was made into a sticky.

Personally, when I buy a condenser I usually buy 2, as if you're serious about getting into this hobby (which it looks like you are Very Happy ) then you will probably need another one sooner or later. They don't take up much room & only cost a few quid at the most.

Try & get the smaller one if you can. So I would say go for the Morris Minor if possible (or something like a Triumph Spitfire). If they don't have them try asking for one for a: 1973 BMW 2002 Touring, registration number TGJ 66M (that was my old car & that took a condenser which should have a wire coming out of it with a spade terminal on the end, which you could cut off).

Hope this helps. She's coming on a treat. Are you taking the head off to remove all that horrible Red Hermitite??? (That's if there's any on there, I suppose it could be an old bit left over from something else that Stu spotted in the pictures).

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by kevjhnsn on Fri May 03 2013, 16:29

ray just ask forum user kevjhnsn ,he has loads in a tin that will do the job,
but you dont need one as it already has a spark mate ,just needs a goood spark plug as end is corroded
but kevjhnsn will also find you one of them from another tin Wink Smile
kev she said so i did
P.S tell the wife ive bought your new project and it was only £250.00 :thumbup: :thumbup: , that was what she said 250 , or was there adesimal in it some were lol! lol! lol!
kev

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Fri May 03 2013, 17:10

Have you tested the condenser then Kev?

I've had plenty that spark, but the condenser is knackered. They run better when replaced & it's such a job getting the flywheel off these things it really wants replacing (with a NEW one or one that's been tested with a Megger insulation resistance tester) while it's apart. I did the same with the Briggs, thinking it sparked so must be fine, it never ran right then one day just packed up, but still had a spark scratch I changed the condenser & it was like a different engine.


They can cause all sorts of lumpy running & poor starting problems, but you never know they are at fault because every time you check you see a spark.

If that tin is full of old ones I expect most of them belong in the bin. I have an old Megger tester, so these days I check them every time & of all the ones I've taken out of engines, I have NEVER had one that tests OK. All of them have shown signs of the internal insulation breaking down.

Never use old stock condensers, & even new-old-stock ones usually don't pass the test. For the sake of a couple of quid it's not worth it. At least with a new one, if there are any problems, you can rule it out.

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by kevjhnsn on Fri May 03 2013, 18:16

no mate
i dont do old condensers as there more trouble than there worth ,been there done that Crying or Very sad
ive have had it sparking and running , just needed other jobs doing on her ,like carb rebuild ect
but that was 2 yrs ago now Cool and i gave ray a shock from it one night as he had the ht cable touching him somwere Shocked he was lol
kev

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Fri May 03 2013, 21:44

I think for the sake of a couple of quid, & all the hassle of taking it apart again I would be inclined to change it while I can if it were mine.

Also, condenser troubles are so difficult to spot most of the time. You know something's up but can never put your finger on it until it stops working.

I still had a small spark on the briggs, even when the condenser had packed up. It just wouldn't fire, or would fire once or twice & not catch on. I thought it was the coil at first, which would've been a very expensive repair, especially if it turned out all I needed was a fiver's worth of condenser! Good job I tested it all first, I wonder how many people send magnetos off to be reconditioned when all they need is a new condenser?

I usually change them as a matter of course whenever I do an engine now. I never used to, but had problems with a few (the usual stuff; there was a spark, but the damn thing wouldn't start, or just ran rough) & it usually took me a while to figure it out, so I just throw the old ones away & change it now.

I always test them before I throw them away though, but I've never found a good one yet. I always test the new one, before it goes in, as well, & they always test out fine, so at least I know my tester works OK & I'm not throwing good condensers away! Laughing (That kind of thing would be just my luck, so I double check, just to be sure).

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clean and ready to paint nearly lol

Post by Raymond_Hopwood on Thu May 09 2013, 08:59

hi all have cleaned it ready to paint done an engine flush and cleaned the sump not nice lol so here are the new pics and also employed my son he wanted to help so thought why not


don't worry that paint is not there any more




sorry thats the best pic of the sump forgot to take a pic well it was apart but you and still see how clean it is

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Thu May 09 2013, 09:48

Have you looked inside the sump? I seem to remember these engines have the JAP patented oil system. I will do my best to explain it....

In the centre of the sump they have a small trough cast into it (or possibly bolted onto the bottom plate). This trough has a small hole drilled into the side of it which allows oil to flow into the trough. The idea is that the dipper on the end of the piston dips into this trough & gets it's oil from there, whilst also splashing some oil around the engine for the other bits.
The reason the trough has this small hole (JAP call it a "Metered Hole") is so that it doesn't get too much oil (too much oil around the barrel & the engine would "pump oil" basically causing a smoke screen). They seem to think a dipper just dipping straight into the sump wouldn't work for some reason. It's typical JAP, making something more complicated than it needs to be & actually designing weaknesses into a system

BUT! The main problem is that the little hole is around the bottom of this trough, so it can get clogged up with cr4p (especially during cleaning, when everything is disturbed & stuff is looking for places to settle). If you can get into the sump (does the bottom of the engine come off these? I can't remember) or somehow make sure that this hole is not blocked it would probably be beneficial. When I stripped down my Model 3 I found 2 holes (the sump was a slightly different design on that one where the trough took up the entire length of the sump, but still had the same system). It had one hole on each side, & there was loads of gunge & dust in the bottom of that one, those holes would've blocked pretty quick if I hadn't cleaned it out completely.

It's a typically British "Good Idea" that would work well in a perfect world where we all live in spotlessly clean oil, but we don't, & people leave bad oil in engines, engines suck in all sorts of cr4p which blocks oil ways & holes, so it turns out not to be such a good idea in the end.

Hopefully this will make some sense to you. I think that's the only oil-way type thing you need to look out for on these, they're pretty simple engines after that.

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by stationary stu on Thu May 09 2013, 11:35

This the sump arrangement your talking about Nuts?

[img][/img]



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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by Foden on Thu May 09 2013, 12:11

Raymond said in his last post that he had cleaned inside the sump so I guess that all is well there? These engines were designed to work at various angles (rotovaters etc) so the trough helps to retain oil that would otherwise run away from the dipper, Villiers fitted a similar trough to their later MK10's as they had problems with oiling on the earlier models with no trough. I have just rebuilt a 1940's MK 10 and it was odd to find no trough or crankshaft oil seals fitted!

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

Post by nutgone on Thu May 09 2013, 12:58

The bit that worries me is how well it has been cleaned. If it has been dismantled & the hole checked then it is clean. But just a rinse out may not be enough, as I found out on my Model 3. There was so much crud in there, if I had rinsed it out it would have looked clean, but the hole would've been at least partially blocked.

Stu, that is the kind of thing, thanks for the pic.

Pete, I reckon Villiers wouldn't have had this on their earlier engines as JAP had the patent. I remember all this stuff from the old manual I used to have which covered all the JAP sidevalve engines. I might still have it somewhere, I distinctly remember them calling it a "Metered" hole (basically saying don't mess with it) & the reasons it was there. If I ever find the book again I will have another look.

The main problem, especially with an engine that's stood for a long time, is all the particles will settle to the bottom, & the hole is at the bottom of the trough (on my Model 3 it was at the bottom of the sump too, which is a really bad idea).

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Re: My new toy my jap 2a

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