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Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

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Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Wed May 08 2013, 21:29

I couldn't resist these two....



I got them nice & cheap, £13.38 for the pair.

So what am I going to do with them? maybe give one each to my nephews for their birthdays? maybe strip them for parts, put a pulley on each of the pumps so they can be driven off another engine?

I don't know, I don't even know why I bought them, it was one of those "I can't let them go for that!" moments, I suppose.

i will survey them once I get my hands on them. If I can get them both running then I will think about painting each one up in a nephew's favourite colour. But if money needs to be spent on them then they will probably be turned around (or at least one of them).

More than likely though it'll be a case of making one good engine out of two "not-so-good" engines.

BTW, these are NOT my new secret project I hinted about on another thread. That is a LOT bigger than these, & will require a lot more work. The time is coming though, that one is one step closer to me today. Very Happy


Last edited by nutgone on Wed May 22 2013, 10:50; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Proper title.)

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by stationary stu on Thu May 09 2013, 11:29

2 nice looking pump sets you've picked up there Nuts. I've wanted a similar type of set up for a while but I want it Jap 2a powered, but the prices are just silly for non runners around here normally making £30+, I know it's not a lot but to much for me to spend. Laughing Laughing Laughing
Nuts if you restore the pumps they should make good money or maybe do a swap for the Lister D then your nephews have an engine each and you've then got a D to play with. Very Happy

Keep us updated of your plans,

Stu.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by Lewis MacRae on Thu May 09 2013, 22:32

Nice looking pair of pumping sets there

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Mon May 13 2013, 23:01

I got these home today, I can't say much about them now as it's too late & my typing will be keeping people up.

But I can reveal one of them is a runner. I checked for a spark, & it had a spark. So I put some fuel in the tank, choke on, found a bit of old rag for a starter cord & guess what?

It started first pull! Shocked affraid cheers

No word of a lie, it started first pull, you could've knocked me down with a feather.

The other one is not so good, in fact it's quite sick, but I will get to that tomorrow. There's a dedicated album for this project, as usual, with photos added. It's on my new photobucket account (the old one is now over 80% full) here's the link to the album....

http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/Nutgone1/library/Stationary%20Engine%20Projects/Villiers%20Hippo%20Pumps

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by stationary stu on Tue May 14 2013, 11:52

Great news you've got one running but looking at the pics the other ones going to give you some work.

Stu.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Tue May 14 2013, 13:45

Right, it looks like these engines are pretty much identical. They are both Villiers Mk12's (the badge says: Mark 12/1 HS, whatever that means). They are both direct coupled to "Hippo Self Priming" centrifugal pumps (I haven't worked out if they are straight onto the crank shaft yet, but it certainly looks that way).

Once I got them home I had a good look at them. The orange one had compression, had clean oil in the sump (well, clean enough), a clean interior to the petrol tank, & was producing a spark (this is the one which also still has a silencer). & Yes I really did just put some petrol in, put the old spark plug back in (without cleaning it), turned the fuel on, closed the choke & away she went first pull (I wouldn't blame you for not believing me, I wouldn't believe it either, it should have taken a good few pulls to even get her to cough).

So, onto the green one. This one has a distinct rumble when spun over by hand. It also has no compression whatsoever & the oil is in a right state. There was also no spark from the mag on this one. So I decided to strip it down last night.

I got the cowling off, got the pump off (eventually) & got the sump off, big end apart & governor gear removed (so I can now stand it on the bench on it's open base without risking damage to the big end dipper or governor gear, which normally protrude into the sump). The rumbly bearing is the one on the output side of the crank shaft, & wouldn't be that difficult to replace, but there was a lot of crap in the pump seal housing (someone obviously hasn't emptied the drain on this part....



& if you look a little closer you can see I had to drill the heads off 2 bolts here to get it off. The heads of these bolts live inside the pump, with the water, & are made of steel. the top 2 came off, but the bottom ones were rusted down to rounded off lumps....



& the sump was in a right state....



I also removed the magneto back plate, the starter dog & the flywheel (now that was a bugger to get off, it's quite a shallow taper on these & it didn't want to release). All this work has left me with this



But, my main problem with this engine is the cylinder head. I just can't get the damn thing off!!! Mad Mad Embarassed Crying or Very sad

I've removed the nuts, but it won't budge, & with that stuck on I can't remove the piston, so therefore can't remove the crank shaft to get at that noisy bearing!

I think this one could be made to work again without too much expense. I could either get another coil for it or convert it to that energy transfer system I'm so keen on. I bet I could get another main bearing pretty cheap, the seals aren't too bad, but if the drain plug was left out whilst running then that wouldn't matter so much (these pumps tend to let water past the shaft anyway, you just need to remember to drain them down every time you stop the engine or leave the plug out & put up with the small amount of water loss).

But, although the orange one works, I have no idea what state the pump is in, so I could keep the green one as spares, although I would rather get it working again.

Anyway, does anyone have any special tricks to get the heads off these??? (Kev?) I've tried turning it on it's side & hitting upwards on the base of the head with a large screwdriver, but it isn't budging. I bet some clever sod has plastered it with red hermitite Rolling Eyes . It looks like it might be stuck on the studs though (or possibly as well as sealant, although I haven't seen any signs of sealant yet, so it might be just the studs).

I have heated the head up, around the studs, & put some easing oil around them. After lunch I will go out again & have another go.

I should be working on the Lister really, but I can get easily side-tracked at times Embarassed .

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Tue May 14 2013, 17:43

The head is now off! cheers

My god that took some work! Embarassed That was a real fight to the death.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by stationary stu on Wed May 15 2013, 11:00

Nuts what you have to ask yourself, do I need to save another Villiers engine or use it for spares ..... Mine would be the later, if a Villiers is going to take to much work what's the point of throwing good money at it.

Stu.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Wed May 15 2013, 11:18

Well I found a replacement bearing in my collection of "bearings which are old but still usable", so that's that sorted. As far as parts are concerned it just needs the mag coil sorting out & a banjo bolt for the carb (again, I think I've found one of those).

The main problem is getting the 2 bolts out which I had to drill the heads off. They pass through an aluminium casting & have corroded into the holes (much like the cylinder head studs).

Thing is Stu, it's a bit of a balancing act, I mean how much is a working Villiers pump set worth? I can probably get this one going with bits I have lying around, & the other one doesn't appear to need any spares.

But let's be honest, I could sell the working one & easily double what I paid for the pair of them, but it's not all necessarily about the money side of things, as we know.

I think the future of this engine now hinges on weather or not I can get these 2 bolts out (without breaking anything). I heated the casting around them up several times yesterday & squirted easing oil in there (with added ATF Wink ). If I can free them off & find some replacements in my nuttery, then I think it's worth proceeding & getting this one running as well. I think if this one runs again I would probably strip the pump down on the other one just to inspect it & make sure the same things aren't happening in there as well.

Also, this is all good stuff. It might only be a Villiers engine, but it comes with it's own sets of problems which need to be overcome. I'm a firm believer in the fact that we are all still learning, all the time. It helps to keep the brain working. Very Happy

Also, I'm not devoting all my time to this. I'm still fettling the Stuart & yesterday I ordered pretty much all the bits I will need to get the cables & most of the plumbing sorted on that one. (in fact, the first piece in that particular jigsaw turned up in the post this morning).

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by stationary stu on Wed May 15 2013, 11:33

Nuts your right in what your saying if you've already the parts you could make good money but you said it had just a little compression, is it piston, rings, valves? that can be the breaker if it needs a new piston and rings, Just you never mentioned the bore since getting the head off!!
Nuts I forget that these engines are the only way of adding to your engine fund and thinking about it yes repair it, sell it and go buy something else as your picking up some basket cases and doing a great job with them so you'll soon be up to an engine that you want not just what you can afford or whats there.

Stu.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Wed May 15 2013, 13:22

Ah yes, the rings. They seem in good order, but I broke the oil ring getting them out, so it'll need one of those. The others, & the piston, all seem fine. I think it was just badly coked up & the valves weren't seating properly.

I got the valve collets & springs off but can't get the valves out. They seem to have a bit of a burr around where the collet seats. I will have to try & de-burr them in situ before getting them out. Not sure if that's a common problem with these.

I could always still sell it as spares, that option is always going to be available. I'm going to have another go at the stuck bolts (well, they're just studs now) today, see if I can get them moving.

I accidentally locked one of the cats in the workshop last night & she's made a bit of a mess trying to get out of the windows (knocked all sorts of stuff over). Poor little thing, I was in there for a good 20mins or so last night, before locking up, normally she would come & make a fuss of me, but she must've gone in there earlier & fell asleep in a corner somewhere. The main thing was the white spirit pot with the bituminous black paint brushes in it, she knocked that all over the workbench & there's little black paw prints everywhere! I think she even managed to get some of it on her fur. Anyway, I've had to clean all that up this morning before I can get on with anything else. Rolling Eyes It's my own fault really, I usually check all the cats are in before going to bed, especially that one as she's well known for getting herself into trouble.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by stationary stu on Thu May 16 2013, 12:00

Nuts I'm sure Kev might be able to help out with a secondhand ring or even a set if your lucky so it could still be a cheap option.

Sorry to hear your cat smashed up your workshop, I've cats myself and 1 loves to be around me when I'm working and if I turn my back shes in where she shouldn't be, she has been fastened in the front room on a few occations as I keep that door closed to keep the dogs out, so she's been stuck in over night a few times, even if the car door is left open shes in. Laughing Laughing Laughing Lucky you didn't have any paint drying or one of your pots got knocked over on to a freshly painted engine.

Stu.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Thu May 16 2013, 14:02

Yeah, it wasn't too bad in the end, just one open jar of blackened brush cleaner on the bench. She also knocked a box down which had a nicely chromed BSA A10 petrol tank in it, but fortunately the tank was not damaged.

As for the engines, I took the pump apart on the orange one last night & although it's been left with water in before it's actually in much better condition than the green one. It's also given me ideas as to how to get the last stubborn part off the green one.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Wed May 22 2013, 11:03

Well, I've decided to sell the orange one. I've had the pump apart & cleaned out the chambers, de-rusted & treated all the ferrous metal parts, cleaned up the seals & put them back correctly (one shaft seal was installed incorrectly Shocked ) & I am now in the process of reassembling the whole thing, making up new gaskets as I go & using plenty of good quality commercial grade sealant to hold them on.

I will probably take it to the rally with me this weekend & eventually put a £30 price tag on it (probably start off a bit higher than that at 1st).
It is a runner & I will test to make sure the pump works if I can (I'm thinking a hoover pipe for the suction, or something like that). I won't bother repainting it though, I have cleaned it up, but I won't have time to paint it, & it's not really worth the bother.

If anyone else wants it they'd better let me know, but I think it's probably a bit modern for us lot. Would make an ideal starter exhibit for a beginner or a youngster though, & it wouldn't take much to get the plumbing sorted. I can't be bothered though as those large BSP reducers are about £8-£10 each & I haven't got it to spend right now.

I started putting it back together last night, but haven't taken many pictures. I hope to finish it off today, as well as the Stuart Turner, so will keep my phone close to hand & make sure I get some pics with it.

The green one is still in bits. That will be worked on in between other projects.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by nutgone on Wed May 22 2013, 21:42

Here we go. Quick video for you. I had to clean the carb out (typical story, it ran fine until I cleaned the engine & stripped/rebuilt the pump, then it wouldn't run, so I cleaned the carb & she's back in business). I also tested the pump by pouring some water in through a funnel, it worked fine, as expected.


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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu May 23 2013, 00:30

:thumbup: :thumbup:
one down and one to go
kev

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sounds good

Post by Raymond_Hopwood on Thu May 23 2013, 08:01

well done like kev said one down one to go but is sounds good and seem to start well so well done

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

Post by stationary stu on Thu May 23 2013, 12:20

Runs well Nuts, well with a Villiers theres nothing in the middle they either run or they don't and more times then enough they don't Laughing Laughing Laughing

Not a bad price if I'd been closer I might have been interested.

Stu.

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Re: Villiers Mk12 + Hippo Pump, sets X2

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