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Yet another Petter!

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Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Thu Jun 06 2013, 15:08

OK, so you guys must be getting tired of Petters and I wasn't sure but when I saw it I knew it was for me!

A1 1.5hp@750, sitting there bathing in the sun, been in someone's shed for 30 years. Turns, clicks and valve stuck of course!


IMG_1544 by dralowid, on Flickr

I'm not quite sure what is going on with the pulley. Looks as though it has been fitted with a large amount of lead solder? Is this common practice?


IMG_1543 by dralowid, on Flickr

The oils still seems fairly fluid, the thing fell over in my trailer and there is black stuff everywhere.


IMG_1540 by dralowid, on Flickr

What to do? Strip it completely straight away and start from scratch or just lift the head, sort the valve (if poss), new oil, clean carb (if poss) and get it running.

Oh, and being a little more radical, shall I restore/rebuild/paint etc or try and leave it looking as much like this as poss??????


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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Thu Jun 06 2013, 16:39

Whats the last 2 digits on the ser number I have 15276?? looking at the moment like its 1955 I will see if I can find it in the Petter archives on internal fire for you, re the pully I have no idea, but if it was me, I would sort the valve and re gain compression then do a quick carb strip, stick some oil in and see what happens. Once running I would then look at painting her, good little engines A1's, I like them Smile

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Villiers on Thu Jun 06 2013, 17:31

Lovely engine. Nice and complete as well, that makes a change as most loose the exhaust.

Here is mine, newly retired from wood cutting duty...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VybS_KQlOk

And this is what it came with

[URL=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/Arunsawbench.jpg.html][IMG]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/Arunsawbench.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Thu Jun 06 2013, 17:43

Ta for the comments, serial number is 1527674, thanks for looking it up for me.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Villiers on Thu Jun 06 2013, 18:21

[quote="michael3"]Ta for the comments, serial number is 1527674, thanks for looking it up for me.[/quote]

Mine is 546580, had a look on IF but couldn't find anything.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Thu Jun 06 2013, 20:47

michael3 wrote:Ta for the comments, serial number is 1527674, thanks for looking it up for me.

its missing, there is a gap between 1527669 and 1527676 Sad sorry

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Thu Jun 06 2013, 21:08

Never mind, thanks for looking, at least we know where it has been for roughly the last thirty years and before that it was on the vendor's dad's farm in Cambridgeshire, perhaps powering a conveyor.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Thu Jun 06 2013, 21:17

michael3 wrote:Never mind, thanks for looking, at least we know where it has been for roughly the last thirty years and before that it was on the vendor's dad's farm in Cambridgeshire, perhaps powering a conveyor.
Sounds likely, but it looks like Jan 55 as a month and year of sale Smile

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Lewis MacRae on Thu Jun 06 2013, 21:54

Is it just me or is the PETTER got a different font on that tag?

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by stationary stu on Fri Jun 07 2013, 12:28

Michael, all I'd do is enough work to get it up and running first before you decide to strip it and paint it or leave it in working clothes. So valves out checked and reground, carb and tank cleaned check you have a spark, new plug that should see her run, I'd leave the oil as your not going to be running it for long or drain it and put flushing oil in to clean it out as you can leave that oil in foe a good 20-30 minutes with out a problem.

Good luck,

Stu.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by kevjhnsn on Fri Jun 07 2013, 12:36

as stu says get life back into her before you crack open the paint ects
there a good little tumper of an engine "and spares are cheap and easy to source if needed
kev

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Fri Jun 07 2013, 15:01

Thanks, I'll follow Stu's advice but for the future, any ideas as to what is going on around the pulley in front of the flywheel? Looks like it may be no fun to remove if required...

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Fri Jun 07 2013, 23:04

I will go against the grain here & say, if it were mine I would strip it down first Very Happy . Right down to the last nut & bolt.

But, I have plenty of time to play with these things. If you are fitting this in around general work/family/social life (none of which I have to deal with) then best get her running first. Wink

Nice to see one still with it's original silencer on. :thumbup:

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by stationary stu on Sat Jun 08 2013, 11:36

It's difficult to make out exactly from a pic what the front pulley is all about. Maybe some close ups might help. Does the pulley have a key way in it?
You need to soak all the end of the shaft in releasing fluid, maybe if you could get the engine on it's side so it can sit and soak. Then you need to look if you can get a puller to attach to it or if you'll have to use chisels and punches to get it of, you'll also need some heat on it so if you haven't got one you'll need to buy a blow torch of some kind. You could get a vintage one and clean it up and show it later.

Check out this seller, blow torches and Tilley lamps. Very Happy Very Happy

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/pfin5512/m.html?item=230991730764&pt=UK_Antiques_DecorativeAntiques_Collectables_EH&hash=item35c82e184c&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Stu.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Tue Jun 11 2013, 15:58

Curiously the front pulley, filled with solder, just came off with a puller. No problem.

The flywheel on the other hand was a right xxxxx! I remember pulling the flywheel on a 2 cylinder Petter at least 30 years ago and it has either got harder or I have got weaker. Anyway, it is off now and I am knackered.

Any hints about putting it back on easily? Or is it simply a case of as much heat as poss and a big hammer?

Head of, valves unstuck, oil might nasty. Carb soaking in a bucket etc etc.

The bottom of the circular air 'duct' that surrounds the flywheel has rotted away so a little metal work next, nothing too fancy. I suppose I could pick one up off Ebay but by the time one has paid postage it will have cost more than the engine.

Michael




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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Tue Jun 11 2013, 18:44

Yeah you could either weld, braze or even solder a patch onto it. If it's largely unseen then you can get away with it, if it is going to be seen then maybe fix a plate in from the inside & use some filler to bring it all into line.

It's little jobs like that which I like in this hobby. Sure if we all had the money we could throw cash at a problem like this, but I think it's much more in keeping with the hobby to try & rectify these things on a budget, testing, practising & developing our skills along the way. :thumbup:

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Tue Jun 11 2013, 21:37

Yes, I know where you are coming from. I slightly resent the fact that the Camping Gaz canister for the blow torch to help flywheel removal cost more than the engine...which I doubt will be worth much even when sorted.

Bashing a few bits of tin around can be fun and as you say, it will be unseen by all but the most inquisitive...and who is going to look hard at an engine like an A1?

Anyone got a source for a cheap green engine paint?

And what would you soak one of those glass bowl fuel filters in? The glass is stuck firm to the casing and I fear breaking it.

This hobby is extraordinary, you do meet generous people, the chap who bought my Vire has given me a tidy little BSA, which I guess I need to look at soon.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Mon Jun 17 2013, 10:22

Well, just a quick update...and a question

I thought I might get it running before I pulled it apart,  but CSD (Compulsive Spanner Disorder) got the better of me and now we are almost at re-assembly stage so paint next.

I didn't realise that the A1 is simply splash fed lubrication, had been expecting an oil pump. Good thing I pulled it apart because the little pipe up from the 'scoop' on the big end seemed blocked with gunge. Bore and piston fine, big ends and mains fine, valves re-ground. Exhaust valve guide corroded at top but should be OK. Magneto sparking like a mad thing.

In search of a 3/8" flywheel gib key, I destroyed the original during The Great Flywheel War. Anyone suggest where I could get one?

More soon

Michael

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Mon Jun 17 2013, 10:40

it has both, there is an oil pump in the sump operated by the cam shaft Smile

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Mon Jun 17 2013, 12:30

Be a bit careful with the gib keys. I believe (don't know for sure) that Lister used slightly wider keys than all the other companies. So don't buy a Lister one.

Hopefully someone will come along & either verify this or tell me I'm talking b*ll*cks. I have a Lister A outside I could measure the keys on, but I have nothing to compare it to.

I only mention this as I expect most of the keys you will come across will be for Lister engines. :thumbup:

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Mon Jun 17 2013, 12:38

Yes, according to the nice bloke at Stationary Engine Parts the Lister key is the same in all respects except that it is wider. If I am in a filing mood it could be an option!

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Mon Jun 17 2013, 12:40

Oil Pump? Not in mine! Nothing there, honest, I did look hard because I'd seen it in the Petter parts book. And no oil pipes or obvious fittings anywhere. 

But the Petter book I have is 1949 and my engine is later, mid '50s. It only refers to the pump in respect of Series III engines or 4hp and 5hp.

So, perhaps I'm mis-interpreting but as I understand it, series III engines have pumps, they are rated at 4hp @ 1400rpm or 5hp @ 1650rpm. 

Mine is series II(probably) rated at 1.5hp @ 750rpm and pumpless.

Michael

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Mon Jun 17 2013, 12:45

They rely on dipper as well as the gears in the timing case, from what I remember. But I never actually stripped one down completely.

Funny, the Briggs (similar kind of engine) has a pump, but it's still largely splash lubrication, as the pump just squirts oil up inside the piston at BDC & the actual oil travel is taken care of by it getting flung around. Might just as well have made the engine shorter & had a dipper!

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Mon Jun 17 2013, 13:00

Matt, if you could be so kind as to measure the width of a Lister key I'll know how much I have to file away...I'm after a width of 3/8ths

Thanks

Michael

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Mon Jun 17 2013, 13:13

Just had another read of the manual, its not imediately clear as the diagrams show all fixtures, only when reading the maintenance section para 21 does it say: Remove Oil pump Series III engines. I went by the diagrams and wrongly assumed mine had a pump. Haven't had any need to strip mine so have not looked inside Very Happy

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Re: Yet another Petter!

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