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Yet another Petter!

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Fri Jun 28 2013, 15:47

Well, just a quick update and a few pics. Here it is just loosly slotted back together waiting for the red oxide to harden so that I can flatten it.

It will of course be going green shortly.


IMG_1550 by dralowid, on Flickr

It looks as if carb and magneto were originally green. I might leave them bare metal and see how it looks, can decide later


IMG_1551 by dralowid, on Flickr


IMG_1553 by dralowid, on Flickr

Things I am short of:
Flywheel key
Seal/washer for fuel filter
1" bsp fittings to make temporary DIY silencer arrangement for neighbourliness

...otherwise it is pretty much all there.

Any advice on rust holes in the tank? It is a bit collander like.

The only other thing I am uncertain about is getting the flywheel back on. It was a pig to get off. Any advice? Shall I do the block of wood in the bore job and twist it back on slowly? Shall I heat it a tad?

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Fri Jun 28 2013, 15:55

Flywheel: generally clean up both surfaces with wet/dry abrasive paper & it should slide back on. ("should").

Tank: traditionally solder to repair, but you could use "Quicksteel" metal putty (some say it's not so good, but I've used it on petrol tanks in the past) or something called "Petro-Patch" (sold on eBay).

As for painting, carbs & paint don't tend to go together very well, so probably best left bare metal, I personally think both magnetos & carbs look good left bare metal.

I usually let my red-oxide go off for a few days (2 or 3) to harden off really nicely, but that's just me, & the primer I use. You may do things differently.

It's looking really really good though Michael, coming on a treat. :thumbup:
You're heading for a 1st class finish there.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Fri Jun 28 2013, 21:31

Thanks but I fear that things may go downhill when the 'tinware' (as VW enthusiasts call it) is fitted. It is quite thin and battered. Done my best but I am not going to start filling it because once you've stared...etc etc.

Anyway, there is a long way to go yet...


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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Fri Jun 28 2013, 22:25

Yep, take your time, because when it's finished you'll have nothing to do! lol! 

Actually, I reckon in your case that's probably unlikely, I bet there's 101 more things to do once this one's out the way. Just hope you're enjoying it, even just a little.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Stamford24 on Sat Jun 29 2013, 07:26

There are some 3/8" keys on ebay. Little short at 2" long but will do if carefully fitted. The tighter the flywheel the better really as it will wobble fractionally if oversize. Just use a bit of easing oil on the shaft, lock the crank with a block of wood and wind it on carefully.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Sat Jun 29 2013, 08:27

Many thanks, I've found 'em!

I see they sell either short 2" or long 5" so I could cut it down to the required length of 2.5"

Going short would reduce the amount of space behind the key which might make getting it out again tough.

So I'm thinking about going for the long one.

But in my mind there is something lurking about keys being tapered a little. Is this true? Wonder if it would have any effect?

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Sat Jun 29 2013, 09:27

I'm pretty sure these gib keys (used on flywheels) are all tapered. All the ones I've taken off have been.

Normal parallel keys aren't though. If it's a proper gib key, with the head on it for removal, then you shouldn't need to worry about getting it out again.

BTW, if you make it to Wiston next weekend you might well meet Stamford24 (Mark) there. I think he's only attending one day though, but I'm not sure which one.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Sat Jun 29 2013, 18:09

What I can't get my head round is if the key is tapered then the height must change very gradually.

Is the height measurement normally taken from the Gib Head end or the other end.

In other words, if I buy a long key and shorten by 50% it will it be too high???

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by nutgone on Sat Jun 29 2013, 19:13

That I couldn't tell you. But I expect Mark (Stamford24) might be able to help.

I have gib keys from the Lister & Bamford in the workshop, I could measure those for you & take some pics if you like.

I must admit the Lister ones are unmistakeably tapered, but they are quite long, the Bamford ones are shorter.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 29 2013, 20:11

You measure the key at the head end, and most keys have the same taper of 1:100 (DIN6887 or BS46 part1) the bottom internal corner of the "head" is the datum point and the height and length are taken from there. Any good engineer could help you sort that out.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Sat Jun 29 2013, 21:02

Bigkid, many thanks for the answer to my question, I know what to do now.

An engineer I am not!

Nutts, thanks for your help too, hope to meet at Wiston if I can make it. Not sure which day.

Michael

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Tue Jul 16 2013, 14:16

A quick update...it's cooler in the garage...

Now shiny, green and running.


IMG_1606 by dralowid, on Flickr

Apologies for the absence of the original fuel filter, just need to track down a seal or 'O' ring that fits.


IMG_1604 by dralowid, on Flickr

Aluminium head, if I remember my car mechanics one doesn't re-tighten an aluminium head, right or wrong?


IMG_1600 by dralowid, on Flickr

Obviously I didn't quite get magneto reassembly just right, timing is correct now but adjustment via slotted both holes is right to one end.

One thing it doesn't do is accelerate too smoothly but from what I remember Blackvanman's coughed when asked to pick up speed? Or is that slander...?

Next steps: run it for several hours, drain and refill oil (maybe), do tappets again, sort the pulley, detail painting to be completed, trolley etc etc.

Life's too short...

Michael

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Villiers on Tue Jul 16 2013, 14:56

Looks ok to me, the only thing I would ask is how far in is that key in the flywheel? Looks to be a lot sticking out on the shaft to me. Might need a file. As for the filter O ring, should be a fibre washer, not a rubber O ring, part from that top job!

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Tue Jul 16 2013, 15:06

Villiers wrote:Looks ok to me, the only thing I would ask is how far in is that key in the flywheel? Looks to be a lot sticking out on the shaft to me. Might need a file. As for the filter O ring, should be a fibre washer, not a rubber O ring, part from that top job!
The original was cork, I put a cosy fitting o ring on mine with no trouble.
Yes, can that key go in any further?
and yes, they do splutter a bit when you give them a tickle Very Happy Mostly down to the crude (ish) govenor and your hand not operating it ultra smoothly, get a vid up lets see her run Smile Looking very good Smile

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Villiers on Tue Jul 16 2013, 15:28

[quote="blackvanman"][quote="Villiers"]Looks ok to me, the only thing I would ask is how far in is that key in the flywheel? Looks to be a lot sticking out on the shaft to me. Might need a file. As for the filter O ring, should be a fibre washer, not a rubber O ring, part from that top job![/quote]
The original was cork, I put a cosy fitting o ring on mine with no trouble.
Yes, can that key go in any further?
and yes, they do splutter a bit when you give them a tickle :DMostly down to the crude (ish) govenor and your hand not operating it ultra smoothly, get a vid up lets see her run :)Looking very good Smile[/quote]

True, forgot about the cork ones. I have had them with fibre washers in though.

Here is mine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VybS_KQlOk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUEg5sWa9AkPjDGUNj3mMRCA

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Tue Jul 16 2013, 17:06

Keys...

The original key was 2.5 inches long. I destroyed it.

I ended up with one that was 5.0 inches. Being a cautious sort I cut 2 inches off of it leaving a 3 inch key.

It is half way in, ie there is 1.5 inches showing and another 1.5 inches doing the job for which it is intended. I guess that is roughly the same as what would have happened with a 2.5 inch key

Do you reckon this is enough? I haven't any means of getting it out again and it doesn't seem to want to go in any further...

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by Villiers on Tue Jul 16 2013, 17:20

The key should fit the entire length of the keyway with no key showing at the "thin" end. sounds like you might need to dress the key with a file and some ink to get it to fit better.

Sounds a bit technical but it isn't.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Tue Jul 16 2013, 21:52

Villiers wrote:The key should fit the entire length of the keyway with no key showing at the "thin" end. sounds like you might need to dress the key with a file and some ink to get it to fit better.

Sounds a bit technical but it isn't.

I would but I have no way of getting it out again!


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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by matt86 on Tue Jul 16 2013, 22:02

michael3 wrote:
Villiers wrote:The key should fit the entire length of the keyway with no key showing at the "thin" end. sounds like you might need to dress the key with a file and some ink to get it to fit better.

Sounds a bit technical but it isn't.

I would but I have no way of getting it out again!


you need a curved gib key remover ....

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Tue Jul 16 2013, 22:18

Is it you thats on the Island Michael? If so, next time you come over to the main land bung it in the car and pop over here, I'm near warsash, not far from J8/J9 m27, can cast an eye on the gib for you Smile

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Wed Jul 17 2013, 07:50

Thanks for the offer Blackvanman, you are not far away at all, I'm near Chichester.

I fear a key remover would cost more than the engine and it is a job I don't expect to do too often, will see if I can borrow one locally, guess the agricultural people might be the best bet?

Also found some old car spring compressors in the garage, will have a fiddle and report back.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by matt86 on Wed Jul 17 2013, 09:22

michael3 wrote:Thanks for the offer Blackvanman, you are not far away at all, I'm near Chichester.

I fear a key remover would cost more than the engine and it is a job I don't expect to do too often, will see if I can borrow one locally, guess the agricultural people might be the best bet?

Also found some old car spring compressors in the garage, will have a fiddle and report back.

Buy a key remover, mine was £20 only a year ago ish. It's a tool you never regret buying.

Matt

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Tue Aug 06 2013, 15:32

Well it is all sorted, done the key etc, starts easily and is running fine but a question...

Using my neighbour friendly extended Ford Ka exhaust with BSP insert (!) I let the thing run (slowly) for around six hours yesterday just to prove it, so to speak.

No problems...but...when I looked at the plug afterwards I found it sooty.

Now I don't think it is running rich, so am I to suppose that this is as a result of slow running or running with no load?

Opinions much appreciated. I don't think the exhaust has too much to do with it, it is more of an expansion box and has some back pressure but probably only a little more than the original silencer.

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by blackvanman on Tue Aug 06 2013, 17:47

I would say lack of load and the possibility of a small amount of oil burning, pressume no smoke to speak of? If she ran for 6 hours without any harm I'd say she's fine Smile

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Re: Yet another Petter!

Post by michael3 on Tue Aug 06 2013, 21:13

No, no smoke, I'll just take it that she is fine and try to find some interesting work for the old girl (and the engine too)

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Re: Yet another Petter!

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