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And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

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And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Sun Jun 16 2013, 20:44

I've just won myself a little baby Stuart Turner, it's an R3. I've always liked the smaller Stuarts, but prefer the looks of the flywheel mag ones, this one is not a flywheel mag model, but should be cute enough nonetheless.

It comes with a lot of bits to fit it in a boat, so it may end up being sold on, but TBH I would prefer to keep it. I might see if I can sell the boat bits, make some money back, & keep the engine. It would make a good exhibit for me on my own, as it would go in my car or caravan, & I could manage to man-handle it by myself (well, maybe not right now, my back's not too good these past couple of days).

The main problems with it are:

1) It is down in-between Portsmouth & Southampton

2) I haven't got any money!

Oh well, I'm sure I'll think of something. At this rate I will have to sell the Lister as a part finished project!

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by Abes on Sun Jun 16 2013, 20:48

Nice one mate where abouts is it situated

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Sun Jun 16 2013, 21:00

Somewhere near Gosport Abes, down in the Solent.

Oh yes, I forgot some pics....





There's a couple more boxes of spares to go with it too.

All I need now is a little boat Very Happy

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by Lewis MacRae on Sun Jun 16 2013, 21:05

Looks good! Don't Stuart turners go for a fair bit?

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Sun Jun 16 2013, 21:10

Well, I didn't do too badly with the last one I sold Wink

They sell OK, depends on what model it is really. They never fetch much when not running & in that kind of state.

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by michael3 on Mon Jun 17 2013, 09:06

Nice one, thought you would!

I'd be really interested to know what the letters after 'R3' stand for on these engines, there seem to be quite a few variants, R3M, R3Y etc etc.

Regarding the boat bits, are those phosphor bronze sea cocks? If so they may fetch a quid or two but it looks like they may be missing their outer plates.

The shaft maybe, but they need to be straight! They can always be cut down. Can't really see if that is its stern tube or just some form of collar.

Selling props can be a bit hit and miss. It is said that the prop you want is hanging on a nail somewhere...but the question is where?

It is important to be able to describe it. Both diameter and pitch (Which might be marked on it somewhere (like 10" x 8" etc)

Michael

You'll like this below, it's an Albin, not mine, just something I'm half looking for...


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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Mon Jun 17 2013, 13:03

Micheal, that picture is simply engine-porn o the highest order! 

Right, some of the letters: 

M. denotes a marine engine (usually means it's got a marine gearbox, but not always). 

R. means it's got a reduction drive gearbox

Y. means it is for a yacht

C. means it's got a centrifugal clutch (or sailing clutch)

X. means it's an industrial engine (not designed to go in a boat)

T. I can't remember now

L. means it's a lighting set engine

& I think there are others as well. These are suffix letters, not prefix. The prefix is simply the engine type. There can also be more than one suffix letter, like my brother's P5XC (used in Zwicky fuel bowsers) & MattH used to have a P5LY (a marine lighting set fitted in yachts).

Although they seem to have dropped a bit of this by the time my P6 was made, as it's simply called a P6R, whereas it should be a P6MR (or P6RM), but by then Stuart had stopped making all but that model of engine & were concentrating more on pumps.

Oh yes, as a quick update to the thread, it looks like I am picking this one up tomorrow. My buyer for the P6 finally paid up, god only knows when he's actually going to come & get the damn thing Rolling Eyes.

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by michael3 on Tue Jun 18 2013, 10:04

Y is for yacht...sounds a bit like a children's alphabet!

Michael

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Tue Jun 18 2013, 18:37

Well actually it looks like I got that wrong. Some very nice person has seen this & furnished me with the correct information, so here goes (copied & pasted)....

A Higher RPM
C Centrifugal Clutch
D Dyna-start
E Electric Start
L Oil Pump
M Marine
R Reduction Gearbox
T Fuel Lift Pump (P55MRT Lifeboat engine
V Stamped to Low RPM version of P5X fitted with Standard Flywheel
X Industrial Version of Marine engine with high RPM flywheel
Y Indicates Water pump on engines designed for stationary use.



[ltr]When stuart stopped making industrial engines they dropped the M.[/ltr]



[ltr]LY engines were generators which were designed to run off the yachts oil and petrol tank, they wee fitted with the Banjo pump and oil pump and had a different casing to the standard P4/5 4 bolt, there was also some R3LY's

So there you go, now you know (look th that! I'm a poet & I didn't even.... erm.....realise Laughing)[/ltr]

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Tue Jun 18 2013, 19:21

Now an update on the thread:

Today I went & picked this item up, I'm really pleased with everything I got. There is a load of spares & bits & bobs. 

There's basically a whole engine here (only cases & water pump shown, what follows contains the innards for this engine/gearbox, plus extras)....



There's 2 boxes full of sea-cocks, strainers, water direction valves, gearbox innards, various starting handles/gearbox levers, spanners, more valves, various shaft flanges, more starting handles/gear selectors, a rather nice brass exhaust silencer (painted black) with BSP ends, some other exhaust bits & some more skin & deck fittings (amongst other stuff)....






There's a smaller tub with what looks like a complete spare water pump & some more gearbox innards....



There's also what looks like the innards of a P5 or P6 epicyclic gearbox (looks to be in very good nick covered in preserving oil/grease)....



A complete carb, looks to be very good....



A complete crank shaft for the engine, which has been worked on. It looks like it has had the big end done, it's certainly been apart & there's no play in it (& it's covered in the preserving grease again)....



There was also 2 mounting trays, one is for a P5 or P6 & has the mounting steel plates with studs, the other is for this engine, looks a bit home made, but very good nonetheless, also here is yet another pair of handles & a 12v Siba Dynastart with mounting brackets for a P5 or P6!!!



Also there was a genuine Stuart Turner fuel tank & a rather nice, rather long, bronze propeller shaft with a little bronze prop on the end of it....





Finally we mustn't forget the actual engine I was bidding on in the 1st place!....







But, horror of horrors, it has a cracked barrel!!!!..



It looks like this was a complete project. the owner obviously wanted a complete engine with a proper gearbox. this engine only has a centrifugal clutch & has that damage to the barrel, so all the other bits were collected to gain a complete engine, with gearbox. Many of these parts are brand new, it looks like there's enough new bearings (still in packets) ready to recondition the gearbox. All I need to do is work out how it all goes together.

Needless to say I have already started to dismantle the engine....



Looking at it, & putting it together in my head, I reckon the complete engine is only needed for the head & the magneto, the rest is all in the boxes. The only problem I can see so far is the piston in this engine is a +.030", there is a spare piston in the boxes somewhere, but when I tried to put it in the good barrel it wouldn't go, so I'm guessing that is also oversize. Not a problem though, I know enough people with lathes, I can get it turned down to match the barrel, remembering to turn out the ring grooves at the same time of course.

Now I'm off for a quick ciggy & test the magneto. Very Happy

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by michael3 on Tue Jun 18 2013, 21:02

Congrats! I am green with envy!

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by Lewis MacRae on Tue Jun 18 2013, 21:57

Nice engine you have there, you got tons of spares aswell

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by steve w on Wed Jun 19 2013, 06:30

I admire you for already stripping the engine - I wouldn't have a clue how it goes back together, I think it will look great when re assembled - are you going to display this one?

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by Stamford24 on Wed Jun 19 2013, 07:50

No hanging about then Matt! Looks good, is the barrel of the other one OK? I see the head has a stinking great crack in it!
Just have to be careful you don't mix the bits up or you could end up with a BamArtEr engine Laughing

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Wed Jun 19 2013, 08:48

Cheers guys. 
            Steve, I'm not sure what's going to happen with this one, I think it largely depends on how well it goes back together. If it's like new then it will probably end up in a boat, if it's knackered & had it's day, it'll be a stationary engine exhibit. I would like to keep it though, as I quite like the smaller Stuarts (although I prefer the flywheel magneto models), but I should never have bought it, as that money was destined to buy my car a nice new tax disc, so I will need to sell at least some of the bits to bring finances back into line & get back on the road (or I could just struggle on for the whole summer, paying back various borrowed bits & bobs from here & there, which sounds far more interesting, trouble is these bits & bobs can easily mount up, which is even more interesting Shocked)

Mark, the cracked head is the spare one. Don't ask me why it's even there, it should've gone in the bin years ago, even though it's only the water jacket that's cracked (I think). The head on the complete (but knackered) engine is in very good shape (seriously, it looks like it's been replaced at some point it's that good).

The engine I was bidding on isn't the engine that was supposed to be the focus of this project, at least I don't think it was. I'm pretty sure that was only bought because it's head was in good shape & it had a magneto (which doesn't actually work). The barrel is cracked (actually a big lump came off it) & the big end has a fair amount of play.

Now, the main problem of the moment is the red engine (the one completely in pieces) doesn't have a red barrel to go with it, it has the only good barrel which is a kind of beige one. But this beige barrel doesn't take the older Stuart brass carb (of which I have 2 very good & complete examples). Oh no, that would be too easy, this barrel takes the later Amal carb, of which I have....... erm, let me see........ oh yes, no examples!

So what to do? Well I could either bodge up the broken barrel with some plastic metal (seriously I reckon it would work) or I look for an Amal carb. But with the Amal carb is supposed to come a different throttle linkage (which I could probably make up out of what I have). I need to do a little more research. I might even be able to fabricate some sort of adapter & get the Stuart carb on there.

All good for starting handles though, got plenty of them Smile.(I think there's about 7, about 5 of which are known Stuart, one other may be something to do with this engine & one other is a bit different).

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by Stamford24 on Wed Jun 19 2013, 22:18

Go see Dennis, I'm sure he could make you an adaptor to take the Stuart Carb, although I cant see from the pics what the fitting for the Amal looks like.

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Thu Jun 20 2013, 11:37

The Amal is just a flange fitting, but it has an elbow thing which drops it down & turns it through 90 degrees.

The flange fitting for the amal is higher up the the barrel than the original brass carb fitting. Which may not be such a bad thing. I'm sure it can be done.

I've been playing with the gearbox on this engine. I've managed to piece it together & work out how it works. Then I found a PDF file on a Stuart Turner Info Exchange group all about how to put these gearboxes back together! I had it pretty much right I reckon.

Only trouble is, I've got it together & it won't go into forward gear, just reverse. So I will have to keep playing.

In the boxes of parts I have found a full set of brand new bearings for the gearbox, still in their packets. But there are no bearings for the engine. So I need to source the 2 main bearings for that (AFAIK I haven't even got any old bearings to take the numbers off). I'm also missing a part of one oil seal, but there should be one of those on the donor engine.

When my box spanners arrive I can finish off dismantling the donor engine & see what can be salvaged from it.

I've still got to clean up all the bits & bobs & cut a load of new gaskets for it all. I expect there will be many more problems to come yet. I wanted to play with the Lister today, or with my new arc welding rods, but it's raining on & off here, so I will probably stay in the workshop & play with this Stuart Turner instead. see if I can get this gearbox to work. I haven't fitted any of the new bearings yet, they are best left in their sealed packets until the last possible moment. I don't want them getting dirty, & none of the engine parts are clean yet.

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by stationary stu on Thu Jun 20 2013, 16:24

Looks like you've found a nice little project Nuts, I'm sure you'll soon have it up and running as it looks as you have enough spares to sort it no problem.

Stu.

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by Lewis MacRae on Thu Jun 20 2013, 17:06

Couldn't you if you wanted to power the prop of the engine. But then again would the rallys allow that. is The gear box a reduction gear box? and is that for if it was to power a prop?

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Re: And Another One!!! Stuart Turner R3(what have I done this time!?!!)

Post by nutgone on Thu Jun 20 2013, 18:50

You could set the prop up & make an exhibit of it. But I have a full set of gearbox bearings & I have no main bearings for the engine, so by the time it goes back together it will have a fully reconditioned gearbox, with new bearings, & new main bearings in the engine. So it will probably end up being sold as a boat engine (although I really want to keep it, & might well do so, if I can finish off the Lister & Bamford & sell them on). Trouble is I'm always spotting these projects & there are other engines I have in my sights. But I really need to get some of these done before I bring in anything else.


As a quick update to the thread, I have now managed to get the gearbox to work correctly (still with the old knackered bearings in it). It turns out the outer cone piece on the clutch/selector collar was round the wrong way. I never touched this part & to look at it you would think it was symmetrical, but obviously it isn't.

The problem I had was this reverse gear on the output shaft was rubbing against the casing....



But now it's all together as it should be....



But, I can't rebuild it properly, with the new bearings, until I get the engine together, because the gearbox has to be built up around the crank shaft & then the casing has to be slid over it. So I've got a lot of cleaning to do, some main bearings to order, then I can start to assemble it.

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