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Siezed Lister BK

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Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Tue Oct 15 2013, 17:01

Hi everyone.

I have got myself a REAL project, a Lister BK that had been left in a field for years to waste away.

Anyway the last onwer has been soaking her in diesel and she is showing signs of life.

My problem is that the piston is stuck in the head and the big end seems to be siezed to the crank. I have lifted the head about and inch or so and when I rock the head back and forth the flywheels move back and forth too, but the piston has not come up to TDC.

What I would like to know is can I buy, or does anybody have a couple of replacement castle nuts on the big end before I put the nut cutter on it.

The crank is near TDC making the one at the back impossile to get the split pin out and the split pin at the front has sheared off. I think this leaves me with no choice but to split them.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Wilf.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Foden on Tue Oct 15 2013, 17:17

The split pins should shear easily, just get a spanner on the nuts and turn them to and fro a few times to clear the remains of the pins and they should come off OK.  The broken piece of the pins can then be drilled out on the bench.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Tue Oct 15 2013, 19:08

Thanks Pete.

Have got some more diesel on them. They haven't budged an inch. Currently looking to purchase either a socket or ring spanner as the open ended one I have is starting to round the corners.


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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Tue Oct 15 2013, 19:56

Getting the big end undone is the least of your troubles ol' mate, how you going to get the piston out???

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Tue Oct 15 2013, 20:17

I've been shimming it up little by little. Got it to the top of the bolts now, think if I get some washers I can carry on the same way although it is hard going. The other way is to take the head off, fill her up with with diesel, let her soak and hope!

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Fri Nov 01 2013, 13:04

Ok. I have the big end off, only one nut sacrificed and the piston is upside down soaking in diesel. She is stripping down nicely, just the one flywheel and pulley to come off and the mag sprocket on the other side of the crankshaft.

Anyone got any ideas about getting the mag sprocket off as it is seized on. I am fearful of breaking the gear cover and my puller won't reach it were the something to pull. The flywheel collar came off ok and it's been soaking since.

Many thanks,

Wilf.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 01 2013, 13:08

Mag sprocket as on the mag? That is a taper shaft so a sharp clout with a copper faced hammer while applying pressure to the back of the sprocket should pop it off a treat.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Fri Nov 01 2013, 13:14

No sorry, my mistake. On the crankshaft, the sprocket is on the outside for the mag to run off and I think there are gears inside too. It has a parallel key in it too.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 01 2013, 13:26

Right, with you now. What I have done in the past is pry it off with a crowbar but if your's is that bad it might not be an option, need to make sure the shaft is really clean and well oiled, it is just a push on gear so should come off easy. If you do need to pull it off be careful as you don't see them for sale very often.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Wed Nov 06 2013, 08:54

Thanks Villiers, I took courage from your words and off it came with a bit of persuasion without breaking anything. All looks good in behind, just need a bit of cleaning.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Wed Nov 06 2013, 18:54

Top man!!

Now all we need are some photos of your BK and we will all be happy.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Nov 07 2013, 03:00

ive only just found this posting and as a previous owner of a LISTER A industrial mostly Bspec parts
the brass valve covers are usually ** V.F.T ** and need lots of engine parts together and big tools and muscles to get the buggers to crack off
but i was lucky mine were only knuckle bar vft, hhave seen loads on utube and others off forums having to use digger buckets and trees to strap engine to or park a car or a van on the engine base and heat and 3/4" drive socket and t bar with scaffold tube to crack the buggers off ,as they are a headless design engine and caps are way to the valves and seats


these are what im talking about


also when cleaning out the water hooper if your is a hooper cooled one
under the raised valve plug casting there is a way through for the water under the valves and it also goes in a t shape under there down towards the middle of the valve stems , if youve seen the lister A-B boilers on the fields ,theyve usually not been cleaned out under there so just an extra 1hr cleaning under there and hovering it as you go ,mine only got to boiling once and it was the hotest day in 30yrs no wind and running for 8hrs working hard jsut means less buckets of water to collect trough the day , "but the manual does say the safe boiling all day long "
just somthing that you dont usually know about or get told to do ,just i was poking around in there and kept digging chunks of rust out  until made room for an extra 2 pints of water to get water just up to  cover brass plugs Smile 
kev

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Nov 07 2013, 03:09

and watch out for your oil dipper bronze rings either side the crankshaft internalaly ,
can be seen trough the 4 bolt side block cover
and also if you have the lister A-B manual new or old ,the timing diagram is out 1-2 teeth ,as diagram is on the angle not square on
this has been an issue on many a lister a b timing rebuild ,they will run but pop and fart and spit out the carb while running, so take your time and make sure you can rebuild her with the gears meeting up as they were before you took her apart, and the flywheels go back on the same side too,as they are balanced by were the keyway slot is cut in different to each other for valve and guvernor sides ,and both look identical to each other when removed ,if you take the weight off the one flywheel before removal ,if your looky you may find the line and lightening strike on the valves side flywheel outside flat face
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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Fri Nov 08 2013, 11:29

Good point Villiers so here is the link to my album

http://s813.photobucket.com/albums/zz59/wilf_d

Also thanks Kev for the whole heap of info that I would have learned the hard way! The bronze rings you refer to, are they meant to be loose? Mine are stuck solid, but then again she had been left for decades out in a field with no cover.

I'm also on the look out for some parts, the most tricky being the oiler and elbow that are on the crankcase door. If anyone knows of one or see's one can they get it for me and I will work something out with them!

I think getting the elbow is the key, I could probably make up a brass glass for the oiler or use an ordinary one, but without the elbow then I will just have to make do with an ordinary door and probably run on petrol.

Also I will need some valve springs, carrier's and pins, does anyone know if the D ones are useable? I can't seem to find specific ones.

Many thanks,

Wilf.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 08 2013, 12:07

Hang on....

What carb have you got on that? It looks like a Solex carb in the photos, not the right one for a BK.

Yes the rings are supposed to be free to rotate, they are the only thing that oils the main bearings, the oil in the channel around the bottom of the crankcase is filled by splash from the big end, these ring turn by friction off the crankshaft, picking up oil and depositing it onto the crank and main bearings.

Oiler shouldn't be a problem, they come up on ebay now and then, proper ones are all brass but if your oiler has a glass in it it really isn't that much of a big deal, the elbow will be a bit harder as these are not common, did your BK have one? Not all of them did.

All valve parts are available from SEP..

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Lister-A-and-B-spares/

Not cheap, but if you could reuse the valves and guides then you only need the springs.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Wilf_d on Fri Nov 08 2013, 12:31

Ah, didn't take you long! There are a few photos of the Petter A I'm doing up too in there. Will remove them I think to avoid confusion!

So am I right that there is a slot or hole in the bearing that they go through? I have just squirted some diesel in there for now because I think the next job is to get the piston out, but would be useful to know what I am dealing with incase I break anything!

Have they recently added the valves etc? I didn't see them before, but useful! I know it could cost a bit, but this engine is more of a challenge than about finance.

I have one usuable valve with guide and spring (from what I can see), just needing a new carrier (that is the bit on the bottom of the spring with the pin right?)

The other has sheared off through the hole for the spring retaining pin. Think the guides are ok but I have a spare head which I should be able to cobble together one workkable valve. Like all things (except the mag!) everything has siezed in the past and I am now comming to the end of what the last owner could soak.

I don't know how much progress I am going to make before xmas as I am quute busy being a musician and teacher which should give everything a chance to soak and hopefully avoid breakages.

Wilf.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 08 2013, 12:43

There is a slot on the top of the bearing.

What YOU need to do is sign up to the IF website...

http://www.internalfire.com/index.php

For a few pieces of gold you can download a copy of the handbook for this engine, not a lot of info compared to the handbook for a phone nowadays but it will help you loads.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 08 2013, 12:45

[quote="Wilf_d"]Ah, didn't take you long! There are a few photos of the Petter A I'm doing up too in there. Will remove them I think to avoid confusion!
[/quote]
Petter A, bloody good engine, every one should have one, far and away better than a poxy D type.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 08 2013, 12:54

This would work for the oiler...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-brass-and-glass-oil-drip-feed-/331061487123?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item4d14cd6613

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by matt86 on Fri Nov 08 2013, 13:10

Villiers wrote:
Wilf_d wrote:Ah, didn't take you long! There are a few photos of the Petter A I'm doing up too in there. Will remove them I think to avoid confusion!
Petter A, bloody good engine, every one should have one, far and away better than a poxy D type.
rob you have now given me a idea !

matt

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 08 2013, 13:12

[quote="matt86"][quote="Villiers"][quote="Wilf_d"]Ah, didn't take you long! There are a few photos of the Petter A I'm doing up too in there. Will remove them I think to avoid confusion!
[/quote]Petter A, bloody good engine, every one should have one, far and away better than a poxy D type.[/quote]rob you have now given me a idea !

matt[/quote]
Oh? Whats that then....

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by matt86 on Fri Nov 08 2013, 13:19

Villiers wrote:
matt86 wrote:
Villiers wrote:
Wilf_d wrote:Ah, didn't take you long! There are a few photos of the Petter A I'm doing up too in there. Will remove them I think to avoid confusion!
Petter A, bloody good engine, every one should have one, far and away better than a poxy D type.
rob you have now given me a idea !

matt
Oh? Whats that then....
petter A for my workshop power engine to run the hacksaw when at home , alot easier than draining water out etc and small and compact

what price are they worth ?

matt

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 08 2013, 13:27

Ah yes, lot better than using the A type, if you are lucky and find one with the half spped shaft on the cam then even better.

Can get a good one for £40 or so....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petter-A1-stationary-engine-barn-find-vintage-old-/400601413438?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item5d45b4773e

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petter-A1-stationary-engine-/121192516133?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item1c37a30a25

Or even a Pazzie...

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by matt86 on Fri Nov 08 2013, 13:40

im off to enstone tommorow so might get one from there.

whatd the better an a or a1 ?

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

Post by Villiers on Fri Nov 08 2013, 13:50

A1 is the newer one of the two but both are good, I really like the A1 but do prefer the A. Really is up to you. If you want a good engine with no aggravation then some would say go for the Zenith carb over the Solex but I have no preference.

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Re: Siezed Lister BK

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