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Villiers engine information needed

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Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Sun Oct 20 2013, 17:21

Hi
I have a small Villiers engine that forms part of a generator.
This was my Grandad's and hasn't been used since approx 1993.
Turns over freely, good spark at plug and fuel getting through but it won't start!
Before I start delving any further I need to work out what model/mark the engine is.
So since I'm new to stationary engines, I was wondering if anyone on here would be able to help.
The engine No is 300608
Mark C28-10-01.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Cheers
Rich

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Oct 20 2013, 18:21

a photo would be great to help out
uk version c28 is a 2 stroke engine large chainsaw sized
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but if your from australia or the genny set is the its the ausie version of a mk25 4 stroke engine
that should look like these
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or if reaally early one will look more like this
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kev


Last edited by kevjhnsn on Sun Oct 20 2013, 18:32; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Sun Oct 20 2013, 18:26

Hi, forgot to say I'm from Staffordshire, Uk. As far as I know my family have no links to Australia. My Grandad did have a habit of buying boxes of army surplus stuff at auction in the 50's, so if the date fits (which I don't know) that may be the explanation. It does look like the green engine, obviously looks a bit different as its connected to an electrical output as it was used as a generator. I'll try and get a few pics uploaded over the next couple of days

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Oct 20 2013, 18:36

core blimmy mate you only over the creak from my gaff Smile  cheshire lad me
just check my post as only just finished adding the pics to suit the info

pic one and i will help were i can after this point
kev

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Oct 20 2013, 18:39

could it be a later mk 25 they were a C25
and c28 towards the end
kev


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Villiers C28

Post by blue cat on Sun Oct 20 2013, 20:00

Villiers C28 is a 4 stroke engine introduced around 1974 ish.
Bore 70mm x 66.7mm, capacity 256cc.
This is the same size as the Mk25, so probably the last revamp of that engine.

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Mon Oct 21 2013, 08:22

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Hope the pics help.
Any help would be appreciated.
Definitely need to know what mark/model it is to try and the spares I'll inevitably need to get it running again.
Cheers
Rich

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Mon Oct 21 2013, 08:23

Ok seem to be having a problem uploading the pics!
Tried using photobucket.....any other ideas?

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Mon Oct 21 2013, 08:28

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Ok got the photo thing sorted!!
Technology really isn't my thing!!
Rich

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Mon Oct 21 2013, 14:56

hi there
is is looking to be a mark 25 should be a HS spec for the genny set
it has the later style villiers /"amal i think"carb,  but my mk20-25 manual dont cover that one
the spring on outside of carb holds a spring loaded choke flap open up need to close it for choke "just incase you missed it"
does the engine have a good amount of resistance when trying to pull it over compression stroke
if not its usually a valve not closing due to rust or carb deposit dropped in the seat while standing
if it has compression,  have you tryed to tip a little amount of petrol down the plug hole  before trying to start it again if you have a good spark as you said earlier ,this should at least after 1-4  pulls make it try to go, so you then should then know its just a fuel issue

if still no smoke then try to clean the sparkplug or try another one in there ,if still the same then,
the points from behind the flywheel in a round alloy box ,acess is faffy but easyer than retiming the flywheel if removed for getting the points

clean points and reset to 0.012" - 0.016"

spark plug  gap 0.020"
and try again
let me know were you get after trying this
will have a look in my other manuals and see if i have that type of carb ,off memory looks very like the lightweight engine range carb on this one
kev

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Mon Oct 21 2013, 22:11

Hi,
thanks for all the information.
So you think its a Mk25 HS? Just checking so I can try and find a manual or something.
Yeah got the choke/spring thing sorted.
Engine does seem to have a decent amount of resistance, but it might be worth me taking the head off to have a look. Are there head gaskets and are replacements available?
Also tried the petrol down the spark plug hole...managed to get the engine to 'pop' 3 times in a row, but that was all!
Tried several sparkplugs, all with the same result.
Points might be the way to go....haven't actually seen where you mean. Like I said maybe a manual would be a good start.
At least now I know what model I'm looking for.
It's going to be a couple of weeks before I get chance to play again.
Thanks for the help, any idea of its age and does the C28 mean it originated in India or Australia?

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Tue Oct 22 2013, 01:10

no mate
its definatly a uk villiers as it says wolverhampton on engine and scotland on genny.
late 1960 to 70s ish but if you send me a reply to the pm ive to u on here
a manual will be sent to you free of charge mate
there not a total rebuild manual just a operators  manual
cylinder head gaskets are copper and gasket mix type ,but if your careful i should be reuseable again
mk20 head gaskets i  can get but mk25 are  not so easy to locate nower days
but i need a guine pig to see as studs and block are all the same ,the head is same external just machined slightly different inside ,
then the bore is 63mm on mk 20 and 70mm on a mk25
so only a 7mmm difference in bore ,so does the head gasket work on both ????

get the cowling off the engine tank should be able to stay were it is just abit wobbly  ,
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then remove the 3 screws in the flywheel curved alloy dish "painted green" that surrounds the pull start  pulley ,leave the rope start pulley on ,dont even think of trying to get it off , this pic is for a good view of whats behind  the flywheel
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now that you can see and know whats  in the electric section behind the flywheel
the big washered screw in round points box is to release the points ,but they wont move until you use a small flat screw driver in the slotted hole at the side of the big washered one ,as there is a disc cam it rotates to open or close the points "sorry its not in this pic but the slot is there at least for a guide
p.s this is a villiers motorbike backplate so the only thing the same is the alloy round points box ,1x top coil and armatures
kev

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Tue Oct 22 2013, 07:47

Replied to the pm.
And thanks again for all the help
Rich

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Tue Oct 22 2013, 23:28

Rich Rhodes wrote:Replied to the pm.
And thanks again for all the help
Rich
hi rich
no problem at all mate my head is full of usless villiers info mate  Smile Very Happy Very Happy 
and manual was in post lunch time to you
should be with you wed or thursday latest
kev
p.s give me the villiers numbers of the carb for me just to see if i have any on shelf "think mine are smaller than yours but not seen then for about 8 months but may have info and a new gasket for one if i didnt use it and its the same carb
thanks
kev

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Wed Oct 23 2013, 09:50

Hi Kev, looking forward to recieving the manual I'm sure it will be a great help.
Carb is a Norton Villiers with the number 10024A stamped on the back.
Head gasket is stamped TaLbros MADE IN INDIA
Obviously I've removed the head and cleaned up the piston & valve heads. One of the valves did seem to be sticking slightly but is moving freely now.
Dismantled most of the generator section, just having a bit of an issue removing the last part as you can hopefully see from the pics. All good fun though!
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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Wed Oct 23 2013, 09:55

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Wed Oct 23 2013, 21:48

Rich Rhodes wrote:Hi Kev, looking forward to recieving the manual I'm sure it will be a great help.
Carb is a Norton Villiers with the number 10024A stamped on the back.
Head gasket is stamped TaLbros MADE IN INDIA
Obviously I've removed the head and cleaned up the piston & valve heads. One of the valves did seem to be sticking slightly but is moving freely now.
Dismantled most of the generator section, just having a bit of an issue removing the last part as you can hopefully see from the pics. All good fun though!
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hi rich
mate no pics again lol   there is know ive reposted it for you though Smile Smile Smile Smile 
will have a root for carb dedails for you
just get a flat screw driver in the slots on top of valves " you cant as yours not have them "and give them a few complete turns around ,just to bed them in a bit better  or lap them in again if you know the method ,when you have a manual for the dismantaling if it really needs it ,but not very often on the bigger villiers seam to survive out in the elements for years ,but yours seams to look inside and more loved and was a clean runner as well by the looks of everthing internal

kev

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by Rich Rhodes on Thu Oct 24 2013, 09:55

Hi Kev,
Manual arrived safely today.
Cheers, I'm sure it'll be a great help!
Yeah the generator was well looked after. Only ever stored inside and was used by my Grandad when he needed power down the fields.
Figure it's just the 20 odd years of no use thats making it play up!
Rich

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Re: Villiers engine information needed

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Oct 24 2013, 21:30

villiers must of got it right and just kept inproving with the times ,bit like the porche 911 good back 40 yrs and just keep inproving a good design
that still out performs super cars of today that start at twice the price ,twice the power ,all guts and no glory
if i cant find the info on your carb ,theres loads of others that will fit the mk25 if it comes to it from zenith 24t2 ,solex the villiers v carb ,
but in theory yours just maybe suffering from corosion ,white fuel dust deposite, or just blocked inline micro filters ,or even just a fuel jet , the way you say its venting out the breather ,should be just needle valve in float chamber just not seating well but usually after engines running again soon rattles back sealing again ,but you will find the issues when your spannering away at the set
if its the carb im thinking of its a easy gasket to make , two holes and a half moon cut out ,if its the one im thinking of, but the gasket maybe the main troublle maker if its shrunk and split ,with drying out over the years,
happy reading and will have a dig later for you as have to find out what the thread is for the backplate ht fitting for another guy
kev

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