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Villiers 12/2 engine

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Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Wed Feb 12 2014, 21:19

Hi People,
First time working on a Villiers 12/2 petrol engine. Year of manufacture 1964.
To start I have very little experience of working on petrol engines being more familiar with lister and petter engines.
However I am mechanically minded, fairly good with my hands, a carpenter by trade, very willing to learn and with all the tools etc I should need.
I have just completed a nut and bolt restoration of a 1956 ransomes crawler dumper. Im also just starting a stothert and pitt roller from 1964 at the moment.
Got the lister on it running after a recondition on the injector , regrind of the valves and a new set of gaskets which I also made.
I could do with the complete beginners option on the Villiers though !
Problem is no spark. I have fitted a new plug and not a jolt out of it.
Guess points, coil and condenser are next ?
How do i set the points and check the condenser and coil ?
I have a multi meter so presume I can check the coil with that ? No idea how many ohms it should be reading or if thats even how to check it !!
So there we go ! Any help much appreciated ! The engine was originally on a mixer belonging to my grandfather and has not ran for at least 30 years.
I would love to hear it run again.
Thanks for any help offered .
Dave

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Feb 13 2014, 04:53

points gap 16-18 thou
stick one lead of multi meter to back plate of electrics points ect
and the other to the L/T lead on the little cable out solder joint ,onleft end of coil ,pointing towards crankshhaft ish
take a reading on the middle ohms setting
then take one from H/T on coil out, pointing upwards to ht lead out point and same setting on meter , post your readings on here

before you think of removing the flywheel please make sure you have the notch on top of the backplate and the arrow/line on the flywheel lined up and then mark a point on rear end of crankshaft to a point for the realining up when ready for refitting flywheel again as they are a keyless taper fit ,and 360 degrees of firing point posabilitys  Rolling Eyes ,its easyer to make marks then rip the head of to re-time engine to sparking again, also flywheel nut will undo once go a few turns and need to be struck again to pull from crankshaft , i find a rubber or leather hammer do it easyest,DONT WEDGE THE FINS ON FLYWHEEL or it will be a "cracking" time and then out of ballance on rebuild, just hit the spanner like you mean it, and stick your boot ontop and pin it down to wooden block if needed

it is probably dead on the H/T out side of coil as common with the villiers coil, villiers will spark if coils ok with a duff condenser, but they dont tend to expire on the villiers engines ,as so well protected from the elements ect

if you need parts finding new or used just give me a shout

hope this is helpfull
kev



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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Thu Feb 13 2014, 19:38

Hi
Done as you said .... Bit late about marking the fly wheel as I already had it off !!
First reading is .06 dropping to .02
Second reading is 4.43
That's on the 20k setting on the ohm part of the meter.

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by kevjhnsn on Sat Feb 15 2014, 03:26

l/t should be approx 400-700 ohms on the 200,000 ohms setting so 0.4-0.6 area
h/t " " 700-110 ohms " " " so 0.7 to 1.1 area

sounding like the coil is starting to break down internally , so you will need a coil ordering to suite your electrics
is yours the wico square coil and 3x stumpy stators all in one piece , or the villers round bar mounted coil with 2x stators going aprox 1/3rd of the circle inside the flywheel area , pic would be great help and should be able to get you a part number to suite or a price if needed mate

kev

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Mon Feb 17 2014, 22:19

Hi, not forgotten this , just been working all weekend. I will get a photo up tomorrow. Been looking at the price of a coil on the villers site . Seems a whole new modern type ignition system that just drops in to place is cheaper ? What's the opinions on this ? I'm a fan of originality myself , when cost effective ... !

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by kevjhnsn on Tue Feb 18 2014, 01:42

sdarmstrong wrote:Hi, not forgotten this , just been working all weekend. I will get a photo up tomorrow. Been looking at the price of a coil on the villers site . Seems a whole new modern type ignition system that just drops in to place is cheaper ? What's the opinions on this ? I'm a fan of originality myself , when cost effective ... !

whats yours fitted with a villiers  d1030-1050 coil or wico/wipac lucas ????
as dont forget they also made motorbike engines , 2 strokes all with slightly different electric backplates
send me a pic of yours if you can and will give you a second opinion, as its easy to mistake with the slight differences mate
send me a email,mp/pm
of your search info on a pm if you wish and see if i can beat it for you££
                                                                                                                               . _____________________________________>
kev

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Wed Apr 16 2014, 22:49

Only just got back to this now! So , new ignition system from villiers for 50 pounds or start with a coil for 45 and see where it goes from there ? Opinions please !!

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Apr 17 2014, 15:51

that sounds cheap for villiers/ george to me mate
just get a second cheeck on that one ,i would 
think it would be more the 65 plus mark mate and shipping & handling fees on top
kev

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Tue Apr 22 2014, 21:16

Have my new ignition system ordered. Now .... How do I time it agAin please ?

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Tue Apr 29 2014, 16:36

So my new ignition arrived today . Any one able to guide me from here ?!?!?

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by kevjhnsn on Fri May 02 2014, 00:42

sdarmstrong wrote:So my new ignition arrived today . Any one able to guide me from here ?!?!?
you need a low melt temp solder and a wire for the lt side if its the barrel coil electrics ??
and a thin brass washer for the ht side also for the soldering ,so the ht lead can get a good contact as these new coils are just a coil and no finished lugs or wires fitted  Rolling Eyes 
so if you get to much heat into the coil its dead and you need another  affraid  think thats what they want another one ordering for there wallets
kev

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by kevjhnsn on Fri May 02 2014, 00:51

timing up
turn engine in direction of running until the piston is coming up on compression stroke with the head off use a ruler or stright edge across the middle of bore , turn engine untill it gets to 3/16" b.t.d.c, line the the flywheel mark to backplate mark and tighten up vft back on re check its still 3/16" -1/4" before top dead center ,at this point the points are just starting to open ,and thats it timed up ,set points when its tdc to 16-18 thou and stick the rest back together and see if it runs sweet as a nut for you 
kev

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Fri May 02 2014, 06:22

It's the electronic one I got for it kev....

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Sun May 04 2014, 15:22

Well I have it running! Thanks for the help people .
Link here to a short video.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GumztjX8UW0
I have it all back together now . Will stick up a photo later.

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by bigshineybike on Sat Sep 20 2014, 18:24

I am also hunting for advice on how to time the electronic module I got from villiersparts. Looks like Dave got his going but how. I assume the timing is controlled by the postion of the magnets in the flywheel?
This must mean the flywheel position is as critical as it is with points ignition but now using magnets rather than the cam as a trigger.

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Sat Sep 20 2014, 19:01

Line up the mark on the flywheel with the mark on the case. Have piston at top dead centre and tighten up. Then away you go! Let me know how you get on .

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by kevjhnsn on Sun Sep 21 2014, 20:55

sdarmstrong wrote:Line up the mark on the flywheel with the mark on the case. Have piston at top dead centre and tighten up. Then away you go! Let me know how you get on .
almost correct just set the piston 3/16" Before TDC for villiers 4 stroke engines 
kev

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

Post by sdarmstrong on Sun Sep 21 2014, 21:02

I done that and it didn't work . George from villiers told me tdc not 3/16? Before and it worked perfectly .,

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Re: Villiers 12/2 engine

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