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Conord F0 rust and crack

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Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Thu Jan 29 2015, 02:25

I've been working on a Conord F0 for the past few days, and I've come across some issues.

1. There are 4 bolts that hold the radiator onto the cylinder that have snapped and I can't get them out because they have rusted so much. I've tried using vice grips but they just have no grip at all. Any ideas what I can do to remove them?




2. There is a lot of rust inside the water jacket. A lot of it has fallen off and clogged the radiator up. I was going to try the citric acid method from this forum, but I don't know how to prevent it from coming back. Any ideas?




3. I discovered what looks like a crack in the cylinder wall. It only seems to be on the outside as there looks like there is a separate lining inside the cylinder that seems undamaged. Does it look like this will be a problem? (It looks bigger in the photo than it actually is)



I look forward to hearing your responses.

Thanks,
Chris

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Locknut on Thu Jan 29 2015, 08:50

Hi Chris,
Just a thought but have you considered using heat on the bolts to try and crack the rust thats holding them?Failing that you might have to resort to cutting the bolts off level and drilling them out.Good luck!
Kev.

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Woodsman on Thu Jan 29 2015, 10:55

Hi Chris,

Agree with Kev. Tap with a hammer,  heat and apply Plus Gas or GT 85 penetrating oil daily for a couple of weeks.
Or saw  'em off and try stud extractors. I got mine from Toolstation:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p51010

Also - citric acid will shift the rust.
Use hot water initially if possible. Just finished pickling a Villiers fuel tank and it came out a treat.


Last edited by Woodsman on Tue Feb 03 2015, 11:38; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by oliver on Thu Jan 29 2015, 11:18

Bernard /conord engines always suffer from stud corrosion in there water ways .the method I use is to cut the stud 10mm from the surface of the face of the casting and I slip a old nut over the stud and weld it on ,as soon as the nut stops glowing but is still very hot I find the stud just unscrews .I then fit stainless studs

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Thu Jan 29 2015, 11:55

I think I'll just have to saw them off then use stud extractors, no welding gear or blow torch, they're all up at home in Newcastle.

I'll get some citric acid online and hopefully get it all pickled by the weekend.

Any thoughts on the crack?

Thanks for your suggestions so far!

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by oliver on Thu Jan 29 2015, 12:15

first of all does it leak water ,if so one of the resin type repair methods as Bernard /conord cylinders were heat treated (one of there boasts in there adverts ) so any welding could affect the cylinder .its a shame you don't have access to welding gear as my method works very well without damage to the parent casting

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:21

I've just checked by filling the water jacket up with water and after about a minute or two, it looked quite moist on the outside of the crack. So it is leaking unfortunately.

What resin repair would this be? I've never done any repairs like this, so I'm in new territory!

I may be heading back up to Newcastle in a few weeks, so I'll try and put off the studs for a while and take the cylinder up and try your method with welding a nut to them.

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by oliver on Thu Jan 29 2015, 19:32

as it is only a slight weep perhaps one of the radiator sealants will do the job .

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Locknut on Thu Jan 29 2015, 19:51

Hi Chris,
If you go onto You Tube there are quite a few videos dealing with removing broken studs - one is 'removing a broken bolt using a welder'- that might give you a few ideas.The guy made it look so easy- so it should be no problem for you!!Simples!
Kev.

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Thu Jan 29 2015, 20:52

oliver wrote:as it is only a slight weep perhaps one of the radiator sealants will do the job .  

Ah good, I'll head out and pick something up tomorrow for it then. Thanks!

Locknut wrote:Hi Chris,
If you go onto You Tube there are quite a few videos dealing with removing broken studs - one is 'removing a broken bolt using a welder'- that might give you a few ideas.The guy made it look so easy- so it should be no problem for you!!Simples!
Kev.

I never thought of Youtube, normally that's one of the first places I head when there's something I don't know how to do! Thanks!

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by tony RA on Thu Jan 29 2015, 22:01

Hi chris
I always use the nut and welder on broken studs and screws where possible with good success , as I do quite a lot of wood burner doors with glass panels and some of these can be a pain in the arse

Good Luck Tony

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Wed Feb 04 2015, 15:28

I've finally got it sorted now. I had to resort to getting help as they just kept snapping every time I tried to take them out.

When they finally got them out, the threads were in such bad condition that they had to put helicoils in to repair them.

Cost a bit more than I hoped, but at least I can get on with the restoration! I'll post the full restoration with pictures when I get the engine running.

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by stationary stu on Sun Feb 15 2015, 16:48

Chris did you sort the crack out yet? Personally I'd grind the crack into a V then use some kind or plastic metal ( there's loads about now for different jobs) once it hardens just grind it flat.

Good to hear you've sorted out the studs.

Stu.

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Sun Feb 15 2015, 22:14

Yep, all sorted now. I used something called 'Super Steel' and it seems to have worked very well. I believe its an epoxy resin product, it has one tube of resin and one tube of hardener.

I've got it mainly reassembled now, but I'm having some issues with the seal between the radiator and the cylinder. There are a few leaks, mainly around the nuts that hold it on, but also around the bottom of the bottom gasket and where the stud goes through the radiator and into the mounting that is on the side of the cylinder. The water leaks out of the back of there.

I have some brass capping nuts to go on the front with some fibre washers, which should stop the leaks from there. However, I'm not sure how I should go about sealing the gaskets and stud. Any ideas?

Thanks

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Thu Mar 12 2015, 13:30

I used some instant gasket, and everythings sorted now. Infact, I managed to get it running last night. Just ran it for a few seconds as I don't have a silencer, so it was very loud and it was late at night.

Hopefully I'll find a suitable silencer for it and give it a good run soon.

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by oliver on Thu Mar 12 2015, 16:01

bernards always used copper washers to seal the studs on all there water cooled engines ,fibre washers will split before the nut is tight enough .

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

Post by Gubble1234 on Thu Mar 12 2015, 21:33

Yeah, I decided to just use some normal washers with a little bit of the instant gasket smeared around them. Looks good enough as the brass dome nuts cover them well.

I'll be sure to get some pictures up soon, maybe a video of it working too.

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Re: Conord F0 rust and crack

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