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Petter A1 Project

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Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Wed Mar 04 2015, 10:02

When we started this stationary engine malarkey I promised my son I wouldn't buy anything that I couldn't pick up and put on the bench by myself. Last week I reneged on that promise and we are now the proud owners of a Petter A1.  



Engine Number is 556568. It has a Wico Type A 1057 B magneto. and Zenith 24T02 carburetter. We have only limited documentation as yet so any info gratefully accepted.
So far as we know the various marks relate to driving and starting arrangements. Ours is starting handle on flywheel side and drive pulley on governor side. Can anyone confirm which mark?

It has a Wipac sediment bowl in the fuel line which has a small lever, presumably On/Off.

Tinternet suggests that you need to be careful about having your thumb in line with fingers when starting in case of backfire but our handle has a ratchet arrangement.  Again Tinternet suggests closing 'strangler' when starting but ours also has a decompression lever. Seems you would need three hands - any suggestions?

We also came across a few comments about not cranking whilst HT lead was disconnected and it should be earthed to avoid damage to magneto coil. Not sure about the science there - surely the resistance of an air gap at atmospheric pressure would be greater than compressed hot fuel vapour?

Does anyone have service/repair info for Zenith 24T2 carb and/or Wico 1057 magneto?

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Foden on Wed Mar 04 2015, 12:43

A nice looking A1 there.  You presumably have a drive from the half speed shaft (camshaft) which is different from the more usual A1's.  The decompressor shouldn't be needed really, though starting is easier from the camshaft end as it is geared down of course.  Everything looks in good condition. if you take another photo of the front end of the engine and email it with the one on the forum and the engine number etc to Jim Perkins (retired Petter service engineer) at jimp1115@btinternet.com he will date it and tell you who it was supplied to originally.  He may even scan a manual for you if you ask him nicely!

Pete.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Wed Mar 04 2015, 15:36

Hi Pete,
Yeah, it all looks fairly tidy with the exception of the silencer but I ordered a new one which arrived this morning. Someone has obviously had a go at restoration previously as the spark plug hole has had an insert fitted for a 14mm plug.
Any thoughts on the idea of not cranking without HT connected or earthed?
Will email Mr Perkins and see what comes back. Thanks for the info.



Last edited by Woodsman on Wed Mar 04 2015, 15:54; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Foden on Wed Mar 04 2015, 15:51

Yes it is acknowledged as being bad practice to not earth the plug cable as the spark normally earths through the plug I suppose, I don't know the technical details why though. Some mags have a built in 'safety gap' to prevent coil damage but I am not sure about the Wico A. A 14mm plug is normal for that engine, I tapped mine out to 18mm as the threads were knackered (technical term!) and I didn't have a spare head! Jim will sort you out OK, I spent last thursday afternoon at his home admiring his Petter collection and he gets lots of requests for engine dating etc but rarely sees any pics.

Pete.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Thu Mar 05 2015, 09:17

Got a swift reply from Jim...
"556568 was sent to Russells Ltd, Kirby Moorside,Yorks on 19.01.1950 built at Staines it was one of a batch 556564 - 556569 sent to the same customer."

Not far from me so maybe I'll get in touch as they are close to the Eden Camp WWII museum where I sent my Dads medals.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Foden on Thu Mar 05 2015, 10:33

I thought that Jim would reply quickly. My A1 is a 1947 one built in Loughborough and one of five supplied supplied to Vipans of Leicester on the same day. I know Kirby Moorside pretty well as I did all my HGV training around that area back in 1976 courtesy of Slaters Transport at Kirby Misperton!

Pete.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Villiers on Thu Mar 05 2015, 15:53

Early A1 Petter's had an 18mm plug but the later ones are 14mm, the use of the decompression lever is totally void as to start this you need to swing it over compression smartly once, then wait as it "should" start on the first swing, there will be a loud "clonk" when you turn it over, this is the impulse on the magneto, a kind of auto retarding mechanism to aid starting, constant running at low speed will knacker this out.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Sun Mar 15 2015, 14:27

Looking a our parts list there were two different air filters that could be fitted. One was a great big "Oil Washed Burgess". The alternative was a, rather tidier, "Oil wetted Vokes" type.
Can anyone suggest a suitable alternative?

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by blue cat on Wed Mar 18 2015, 20:37

Probably got a Burgess type around here somewhere, but the main alternative was the fitment of no air filter, very attractively priced ! Laughing

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Thu Mar 19 2015, 09:33

Hi Blue Cat. Yes, looking at YouBend and the like it seems that loads of people run them with no air filter but I would have thought that would give a weaker mixture and make starting more difficult.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Wed Mar 25 2015, 09:56

Thanks to Kev for pointing us a at gib key puller. Any thoughts on best practice?
We're thinking plenty of Plus Gas for a few days then apply the puller but surfing seems to suggest leaving it under strain and adding more Plus Gas day by day and slowly increasing the strain?
Once we get the key out, what is the best way to remove the flywheel ? We are assuming it won't just slide off Smile

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Tue Mar 31 2015, 12:58

Gib Head Key puller arrived and worked a treat! Once out we had good look at it and found it badly scored on the underside..



However, the flywheel take off dead easily and we found the reason for the scoring. Can't believe it left the factory with the keyway like that. Any thoughts?


The bottom of the flywheel cowling is pretty rusty with a few perforations, but otherwise not in bad shape overall. Big decision now is 'oily rag job' or hours of cleaning and painting? Or, maybe paint the tin-work but just clean up the castings and leave the patina of age?



Last edited by Woodsman on Sat Apr 04 2015, 07:59; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Tue Mar 31 2015, 13:32

One question springs to mind. How on earth are are you suppose to gap the contact breaker points with the cowling still attached?


Last edited by Woodsman on Wed Apr 01 2015, 08:51; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Foden on Tue Mar 31 2015, 18:04

Woodsman wrote:One question springs to mind. How on earth are are you suppose to gar the contact breaker points with the cowling still attached?

You can gap them OK but if replacing them just whip the mag off. Air filters were an optional extra, not many British built engines had them anyway.

Pete.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Locknut on Tue Mar 31 2015, 18:17

Hi Paul,
Just as a matter of interest which gib key puller do you go for in the end?
All the best,
Kev.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Wed Apr 01 2015, 08:54

Hi Kev,
I got the one you suggested from Stuart (Jordon?). Arrived next day and worked so well we thought we were doing it wrong and broken something. Excellent piece of kit. Thanks.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Locknut on Wed Apr 01 2015, 12:24

Hi Paul,
I think you've got the wrong Kev!There are a few of us about!
Any chance of a photo of the puller?
All the best,
Kev ( Locknut)

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Thu Apr 02 2015, 08:17

Oops - take more care when replying!
Here's the url:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lister-A-D-gibhead-key-puller-CS-L-WD-PT-/121600271902

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Locknut on Thu Apr 02 2015, 09:10

Hi Paul,
No worries.
Thanks for the link - that was the one I was thinking about getting to.Its always good to get a recommendation first though!
All the best,
Kev.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Fri Apr 10 2015, 16:01

Tin work is coming along nicely.  Needs a bit more work on the top half of the cowling then we'll throw some primer at it.


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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Mon Apr 27 2015, 08:33

All done ! Don't look too carefully at the paintwork - got bored with rubbing down.





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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by jakesdad13 on Mon Apr 27 2015, 10:13

Nice job well done,are you planning on showing it? there is a rally at Shireoaks this coming weekend, not too far from Sheffield, Just off the A57 going into Worksop, I will be there with my Lister "D" and Lister Domestic pump, its free entry there,s usually a couple of steamers,tractors,classic cars,motorbikes and of course stationary,s. It is low key no traders or junk stalls,maybe an ice cream van, it is a great start to the rally season.

Cheers, Pete.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Tue Apr 28 2015, 07:44

Thanks Pete. May well have a butchers at Shireoaks but can't find any info ont tinterweb?

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by jakesdad13 on Tue Apr 28 2015, 11:42

Hello mate, no I,ve had a shufty but cannot find any thing its organised by Moss Valley Agricultural Preservation Society out of Mosborough, of which I am a member, I checked our site but there was nothing there either, but it is definitely on. Pete.

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Re: Petter A1 Project

Post by Woodsman on Tue Apr 28 2015, 16:18

Thanks Pete - Saturday, Sunday or both ?

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Re: Petter A1 Project

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