Lister H1 Pump Trolley

Hi all,
Now that my Lister has been fixed (apart from the tap!) I have decided to make a start on a trolley for my H1 pump. Abes very kindly donated a couple of lengths of nice mahogany and 4 small cast iron wheels for this, which I shall use. I have already lightly sanded the wood and cut it down to length. The wheels are to soon be cleaned out with a wire brush before re-painting and a set of axles be produced. I am thinking of buying a flat belt to run the pump. The following images show the rough layout of the trolley to check dimensions etc before anything is fixed in place. The axles will simply be positioned through holes that will be cut through the trolley as it is nice hardwood and budgets are low. so tell me what you think!

Toby.

Looks good mate, it'll certainly do the job but remember, you will need something to stop it moving around so you can keep the belt tight enough. If it were me I would have some holes drilled through each end of the wood so I could drive some metal re-bar stakes through to keep it from moving on it's wheels, then I would adjust the tension on the engine itself as that is less likely to move. The belt doesn't need to be super tight but you also don't want it too loose.
Honestly and truthfully I wouldn't put a pump on wheels, but since you have them it would be a shame to waste them, and it does look nice with those little ones

That looks great mate though if it was me i would make it a little shorter and with the little bits you chop off the ends use them to make some blocks for the axels to go through just so you dont have to drill the main bits of wood, would also make a couple of plugs to fill the couple of holes you have in the main bits then using some of the sawdust mix with wood glue to finish off and fill any gaps left, but its your trolley and if your happy then tell me to sod off
As Ian said will need to think about movement what i do is fix a couple of eye bolts to the end thats going to be furtherest from the engine and use these to anchor the trolley by putting metal stakes though them and into the ground, theres also a plus side to this as they could also hold a handle too

Thanks for the interest, I have decided to use the wheels since I have them and it will also aid movement when necessary, I was and still plan to at one stage construct a 'pump house' diorama for the rallies but I am not able to do this yet, so I am building this so that it has something to live on this year. I think that it looks a bit too long too so it will be shortened a bit to make it more aesthetically pleasing. Would a set of wooden chocks not be sufficient in keeping the trolley still? Also, does anyone know where I can buy some metal bar and split pins for the axles? Would you recommend using washers either side of the wheels & the split pins and the trolley & the split pins (Thats how I plan to keep the axles in place)?

Toby.

Toby if you don't have anywhere local to get the metal try Ebay. All you need is an engineering company and they will sell you the bar for the axles, they normally have a scrap bin or even some new in stock. (I've managed to get all my metal from an engineers, that's been anything from round bar right up to 3x3 angle and some 2 inch box section and all at a good price). Yes you'll need washers with either split pins or some R clips. I don't think you'll need anything as heavy as rebar to stop it moving but it all depends on the surface your on. You could try some thing like metal tent pegs to hold it with just 4 metal lugs in each corner. You might need another way to stop it moving just in case the rally is on concrete or tarmac, old air field etc so maybe 2 rods from engine trolley to pump trolley to keep them apart. Or wood could be used some how. The V belt looks fine for the minute and you'd be better of waiting to get a flat belt from a rally as they'll be a lot cheaper then say ebay or buying new. I've picked up shortish flat belts for a few quid that would be about the right length to couple up an engine to a pump.
Can't comment on the trolley but it looks good to me, you'll maybe need to check how much room you'll have when transporting before cutting it down. If your staining it careful as stain always goes darker the more coats you add so go for the lightest they have then you can build up a few coats to get the shade you want or it looks good enough just to put a few coats of yacht varnish on it.

Stu.

Hi all, a quick update, after a couple of weeks of dirt removal from the wheels with petol and a wire brush, the wheels are now ready for painting. The first coat of paint has been completed and a second will be completed tommorow. The trolley will be shortened and angles cut on the bottom in the comming days aswell.




Toby.

Toby, what's the diameter of the axles? I just built a trolley for my Kohler & got my axles from eBay. The shorter the lengths the cheaper the postage, I managed to get mine down to 500mm (half a metre). You can get 20mm & 25mm solid bar or tube axles quite cheap.

If you are going to drill them for split pins you'll need solid bar really, tube tends to break once drilled.

Probably best to get yourself a cheap box of split pins, they really aren't expensive on eBay, then you'll have all sizes for any other jobs (as you're really not supposed to re-use split pins, ever, although we all do it).

I drilled my outer holes as close to the end as I could, then put a washer on, then the wheel, then another washer, put a split pin through the hole & then mark a line where the inside pin needs to go, then remove the washers & wheel & drill your hole for the inner pin. A 4mm pin should be ample, & will be a good fit in a 4.5mm hole.

So yes, what you suggest is right, pin-washer-wheel-washer-pin. I can also give you a link to where I got my 20mm washers from on eBay. I always find the cheapest seller, so could save you the hassle if you like. But first measure your axle holes in the wheels. 20mm would be ideal, but we can work with whatever.

I would also go with Abes' idea of making up some axle blocks to screw in underneath, rather than drilling the main chassis of the trolley. it will bring the ground clearance up a bit & save you getting snagged on any rough ground. Ideally you could do with access to a bench mounted pillar drill, so you know you'll get all your holes dead square. But careful drilling with a hand drill will probably do you if you can't access a pillar drill/drill press.

Anyway, here's a start. A cheap box of assorted split pins. I've got an identical box here & they come in very handy, under a fiver with free delivery, can't be bad....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-500pc-Cotter-Pin-Assortment-Split-Pins-Fixings-Garage-Workshop-/130863581554?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e7813c972

Here's some 20mm axles, they are 500mm long. This seller had the best combined postage rates, so worked out very good for 2 axles. There was another seller which was reasonable on price, but ripped off on multi item postage....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271170025823

& here's a good set of 10 washers. They are M20, so go round the 20mm axles very well....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180687971065?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Hope this gets you started. Let us know if you need anything different, but those sellers are all pretty good.

Thanks for the help Matt, that information will be very useful. The holes in the wheels are 15mm diameter.

Toby.

SussexSteamFan wrote:Thanks for the help Matt, that information will be very useful. The holes in the wheels are 15mm diameter.

Toby.

What's the width of the trolley? Or, perhaps a better question, what's the axle length got to be (so width of trolley, plus the wheels, washers, space for the pins plus a little bit so the wheels aren't dragging against the wood (the extra bit also makes the whole thing more stable). I've found lengths of 15mm bright steel bar starting at 330mm (about a foot), but I'm guessing that's too short.

If you were picking it up you would be better off just buying one big length, but with eBay it gets very expensive to ship parcels when they get over 500mm, so it's often cheaper to buy it in shorter lengths.

Anyway, here's some 15mm at 330mm length....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRIGHT-MILD-STEEL-ROUND-BAR-15mm-Dia-x-330mm-EN1A-/270626188789?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3f0293edf5

If they're not long enough these are the next cheapest option, they're the same but 500mm length (could be cut down to suit, unless 500mm would do anyway, I didn't have to cut any off my Kohler ones & that's a pretty skinny trolley)....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bright-Mild-Steel-Round-Bar-15mm-Dia-x-500mm-EN1A-/280774134796?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item415f714c0c

You could go down the stainless steel route but TBH I don't see the point. You'll probably leave a thin coat of oil or grease on them anyway & clean them often enough. Or just prime & paint them to protect them. Personally I don't think stainless looks right on old stuff, & it's blumin expensive.

Right, let's see if I can find some washers....

Hmm, strange. it seems 15mm washers are a strange size. You could go for some M16 washers, there's loads of them about, here's the cheapest pack of 10....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-M16-FLAT-WASHERS-FORM-A-ZINC-BZP-16MM-METRIC-/180687968646?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Nails_Fixing_MJ&hash=item2a11d79986

Or maybe there's an imperial size which matches up better? Anyway, they would do if you couldn't find anything else.

Now I will get on with your petrol tap, see if I can make it seal once more....

What I've started to do is buy penny washers/repair washers and drill the center hole to what I need, save buying packs that may never be needed again where as the penny washers always have a use.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M6-x-25mm-A2-STAINLESS-STEEL-FLAT-PENNY-MUDGUARD-REPAIR-WASHER-BIKE-QUAD-/200828962121?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Nails_Fixing_MJ&var=&hash=item2ec256c549

Stu.

That's why I usually just buy a pack of 10 of any large washers. He's going to need 8 for the trolley, the last pair could go into a box of mixed washers. I think he could do with starting to collect little bits & bobs like this.

During my search for those washers there was a big pack of mixed penny washers which would've done the job, but would've needed drilling out. It's not the easiest thing in the world to do though, drilling washers. They're not too easy to get hold of/grip properly & the drill tends to snatch quite badly, which can often make a mess of the washer. It needs very very light pressure on the drill, especially towards the end of the cut.

If you do drill some, just be careful, don't hurt yourself. (it's best done on a drill press really, with the correct tool-maker's vice). It's easier to drill some holes in a bit of sheet then cut the washers out with a pair of tin snips. Doing 8 of them will take time though, if you want it to look good there's a lot of filing afterwards to make them look right. Not a difficult job though, & quite satisfying work.

Hi again, The frame has now been shortened (its amazing how much different only 10cm makes!) and angled on the bottom. The wheels are now all finished with two coats of black hammerite on each. Here's another little taster... (I like pics!)




Now I need to start buying the components needed for the axles, everyone's help on here has been invaluable, thanks.

Looking good mate now its been cut down, get those blooming holes filled in though lol

Yeah, you might even be able to cover the holes up with a nice Lister badge or something.

I shall probably make a 'plug' from the off cuts to fit in that hole. That's also how I plan to fix the trolley together, with two large screws in each joint set about half an inch in the wood and then filled in with a 'plug' from the off cuts with grain going the same way and sanded down nicely. A cheap and cheerful way of fixing together a trolley, with all screws concealed.

Toby.

Well done on making a very tidy trolley.

Just to add to what Nut says about drilling washers or anything similar. When drill and your getting close to coming out the otherside the drill might stick well the best thing to do is turn it around and drill from the back, very lightly but that should do the job.
I also have to say it might be helpful if when your needing nuts, bolts, washers, split pins, etc etc you get the jist, buy a few extra to start a little stores, so your not going to get stuck for a washer or a split pin.

Stu.

Hi all, I have had a word with the steam engineering company who I help with and forgot that a set of axles could be produced there. So now I am able to have a set of nice proper steel axles to be manufactured within the next couple of weeks (possibly by myself under the guidance of the boss ) that can be screwed on underneath. This means that the wood skids can be fixed together (the only reason that they haven't already was that I was waiting for holes to be drilled for the original style of axle using a pillar drill).

Toby.

Great stuff Toby, even better that you could be making them or yourself.

Hi all, I had a busy day yesterday at Michael Webber Steam Engineers fixing solid rubber tyres to our Marshall engine and producing a set of axles for my trolley. It's nice and simple, consisting of some round metal bar that has been turned down on the ends using the lathe to the right width, with two plates welded on to each with holes drilled in for the screws and split pins, of which a large box was offered (with washers too) to me . Here are a few pics to show the layout (I shall probably move the axles a tiny bit nearer the centre than what is shown in the photos), all I need to do now is paint them, and screw everything together. (And yes Abes, fill in the holes...!). The extra height from the axles means I do not have to worry about belts rubbing against the wheel of my lister barrow trolley, which it did when the pump was sitting on just the wood.





Toby.

Nice job toby , thats how most of us do our trolleys if its not steerable .

matt

Looking great mate nice little trolly, will all be back together soon then

Abes wrote:Looking great mate nice little trolly, will all be back together soon then

Just as soon as someone sends him his petrol tap back (that would be me ).


Looking good, that's a good job on the axles. Fixing axles to a trolley is always a bit of a pain, there's so many different ways to go about it, in the end it usually comes down to what you've got available as to how you do it, but these look really good, very professional & certainly neater than drilling big holes through the wood.

Very good job Toby you've made yourself a nice set of axles.

Stu.

If you did all that yourself, you made a very nice job, Toby

A machinist in the making here, methinks