BAMFORD MILLARS SV3

Picking this one up in a couple of weeks, as I have decided to keep Lister A as is, this one will make a good project for the winter
will post pics as I go.
Anyone have any ideas ref dating it.

Send an email with any numbers and some pics to Dennis and Phillip at http://henrybamfordandsonsuttoxeterengland.co.uk/  and they should be able to date it for you.

Pete.

Hi Pete,


Thanks for that, Regards Richard

That's a nice engine, I look forward to seeing that done up.

Bob

Must get my one of these done. You don't see many of them about.
Check out my threads (I haven't been on here for ages) & you'll find it. I got as far as dismantling the thing, that's it. It's on the list though.
I would be interested to see those tanks & tank fittings closer up, as it's something I would like to replicate.

Hi Matt,

I did read your threads and have done the same as you and thought it was smaller than it is, that is the problem going only by pics

I pick it up in a couple of weeks or sooner as long as I can get it into my van, I will post some pics of tanks for you.

Going by description its going to be an easy one to do as he has already done most of the work on it, all being 20 years ago.

Will post pics as I go, Regards Richard

Picked up the SV3 Yesterday afternoon, spent some time on it today making chain fit on magneto and guessing where the timing might be as not got a manual, at first thought it may be like the listers, but TDC on the Bamford is at 90 degrees on jib key and not 180 luckily can feel the piston through plug hole, I made a makeshift tank out of a water bottle not very good though but better than nothing and kept hose pipe running, anyway thought I would give her a try and with a bit of fiddling with timing and carb she now runs, feeling very chuffed indeed, pic attached of her running, not bad considering more than 20years ago it last ran.

What a good result Squire! - after 20 years of not running you must be happy. How does it sound? worn a bit or just like a swiss watch? What was its previous life?

Keep us informed.

best

Hamish

Hi Hamish, was very happy when it decided to run, even though one of the fly wheel jib keys is to small and flywheel bounces about a bit, I don't want to run it to long like that in case I damage something,
there is a bit of worn noise from bottom end so I will have to split the bottom open to investigate further before I start to go to far on restoration, its a very heavy lump but you don't see many about and that was one of the reasons I got it and hopefully rally it next year.
Will have to get some sort of manual though as completely in the dark with this one. I have attached a short video so you can judge for yourself, I bought the engine off a guy called Shane never got his surname lives in Yate near Bristol, but him and his father have an Aladdin's cave of engines there are so many they could hold a rally just by themselves I was in aww, anyway he started to restore the SV3 over 20 years ago and has never touched it since, that's all the history I know, I have emailed henry Bamford and son and will see if they can shed some light, will post pics and info as I go along. Regards
Rich



The rattle is the flywheel by the way

I'd sort that key 1st and try running it again before getting too serious in the bottom.  
You might be lucky and find the worn noise "disappears" when the key(s) are solid.

Good luck
Cheers

That's a great sounding engine - its got some right character in its pop! - Darryl has perhaps saved you a lot of trouble - I had a similar issue many moons ago - couldn't find the issue after weeks of taking it apart - only found it when putting it all back together and found the loose jib key..........bah!

The two gents in Yate sound like a good find! - its one of the pleasures of this game - running around the countryside finding all the interesting/mildly mad people who collect old engines and odd mechanical stuff!

let us know how you get on.

Best

Hamish

Made a temp jib key this evening and could not rock both flywheels by hand anyway, started her up but still sounds like flywheels are rocking, when I rock the flywheels back and forth I am getting a knocking sound as per video.

https://youtu.be/EO_oM_ESV0s

Was also going to say that its not a problem splitting the bottom end as the Bamford hinges over to expose all the working,
I say not a problem as it looks like the bolts are going to be a pig to undo.

well have some news on the SV3, have got an email from Phillip Wood dating the engine at August 1942 one of 27 sold to Millars of Bishop Stortford.
I decided to split the engine tonight ( bolts came undone no problem at all ) for the sake of 4 bolts and am so glad I did, the oil filler hole showed there was oil in the engine but as you can see by photo's not a drop I even topped it up so I thought, there was a lot of movement on big end so I took off the bearing cover and as you can see lots of shims but things don't look badly worn, what do you think, will I need to change shells, crank looks ok and as far as I can tell no play on small end, but I will probably pull out piston and check that over as a precaution now I am this far into it.
I will have to wait for my handbook which I ordered last night from B J Sims to find out exactly what is what with the shims, I believe the Lister A is shimmed as well, so all in all not looking as bad as I first thought so glad I did not run it for very long.
I have also been in touch with Franks Tanks ref getting an exhaust and maybe new petrol tank and cooling tank as both mine need a fair bit of work we will see about costs first and then decide.

Many engines had shimmed big ends or mains, Ruston PB/PT, Wolseley WD2, Wisconsins etc etc plus most open cranks.  Just shim the bearing up so that there is no up and down play but the rod can still move from side to side on the crankpin and you wont be far out.  Try and get the shims equal on both sides and rotate the crank a few times to ensure there are no tight spots..

Pete.

Thanks for that Pete.

Just another update I decided to drop out the piston from the bottom and found that the oil ring is stuck in piston plus one of the other rings as well, so left to soak for a while as don't want to break any, bore looks glazed but not scored, so off with the head and give a hone by hand I think, going to be a busy weekend but well worth it.

Spent an hr this evening after work to get piston completely out. had to drop the crank and freed up the rings with no breakages, although they look well worn and the top ring is pitted on top edge see photo's, the caps for the gudgeon pin are copper and they just fell out and one looks like it has been rubbing on bore, do I replace them or do I make them a bit wider by hammering edges and put them back, will I need to change rings as it had good compression anyway, or just clean up with a bit of fine rubbing down paper, comments most welcome.

I have seen much worse rings being re-used, these look reasonable.  I would probably remove the rings with care, cleaning any carbon from behind the ring grooves and then check the ring gaps by trying each ring in the bore. (Caveat that if a ring breaks don't blame me lol !)  The bore may benefit from a light hone prior to re-fitting the rings, assuming they are within tolerance.  This will help them bed in and possibly improve compression.  Rough guide is 3 - 4 thou per inch of bore.  I wouldn't do too much with the copper end pads, not had experience of these personally but hammering them to try and expand them doesn't sound like the right approach.
Thanks for updating us on your project, will follow with interest.
Cheers
Dave

Hi Dave,

I will have to wait for manual to see what they say ref copper pads that's if they mention them at all.

The not so good news is, after dinner instead of falling asleep in front of the telly decided to take the head off and start to hone the bore, it looked like there was surface rust to bore from top of bore to middle, the more I removed the more I began to despair, at some time this engine must have been completely seized as there is at least a 10 to 15 thou rust groove/pitting around the middle of the bore probably where ring was rusted onto the bore, then there are a about five or six deep marks in bore close together, I don't know how they got there though as it looks like chisel marks/scores, also there is to much rust pitting to top end of bore to hone, from middle to the bottom of  bore is completely mark and rust free, now what to do   ah well tomorrows another day.

Hi, Once you get things cleaned up post up a few pics of the bore. Seemed to run ok in the video but long term bore sounds like it will need attention :-( Keep your chin up, things can be sorted! Cheers Dave

Hi Dave, cleaned up bore this afternoon as much as I could as per images, also checked ring gaps the bore is 4 3/4" and the gaps are 2 at 21 thou 1 at 24 thou and scraper ring 42 thou, so I think will need rings in any case. Will this engine take a bore liner as I think a rebore will take about 20 to 30 thou off and then I will still have to find a piston and rings to match.
Top of piston is well pitted from rust as images.
The main bearings on the flywheel side that was loose don't look to good and end of one looks like its been hammered, but as they are also shimmed perhaps I could clean them up.
Will probably spend a bit of time tomorrow trying to get jib key out of the other side that has had some welding done to it for some reason.

]

When I rang Cox and Turner this morning I asked about the bore on the old girl and very pleased to say they would be able to help me out, plus they are only in Yeovil which is not far from me.

I originally thought about buying new tank and water tank but decided that I have the equipment and know how to repair rather than replace
so I started on tank today welding patch to bottom and soldering joints plus soldering in the fuel tap joint and am very pleased with how its turned out.
Will now get filler work done and seal inside with POR 15, excellent stuff and goes a long way I have done 4 tanks with just one small tin, admit they were Villiers and Petter A1
but good value I think as it makes the inside of the tank like new.

That main bearing shell looks like someone's been levering against it to get a flywheel off or something, it'll clean up fine, they're only white metal. I have a spare (brand new) bearing scraper here I bought by mistake some time ago, all you'll need is a tube of engineers blue & you can try your hand at bearing scraping (I've had a go before, as long as you're careful it's easy enough).

I've got some old Caxton engineering books here with instructions on scraping bearings (as well as practically anything else you could think of doing to an old engine), maybe I could attempt to scan a few pages off for you?

20 thou would (ordinarily) be fine for a ring of this diameter. As already mentioned, around 4 thou per inch is fine for top ring, but you can go slightly more for subsequent rings & oil scrapers can be even larger as they don't afford a compression seal. But if you're having the bore sleeved then best to go for new rings too, maybe even go to the lengths of using special running-in oil for the first few rallies next year. But I wouldn't throw those old rings away just yet, keep them with the engine, they'll do fine as spares should you ever need one.

Bearing scraping is quite a long process to try & write instructions on, so if you want to have a go let me know & I'll scan off some pages from my old books.

I would be interested to know if anything's mentioned in that manual about valve timing? When I took mine apart there were no marks on the cam or crank gears (not that it's that difficult, when in doubt I go by the JAP method of getting the valve overlap timed just on the exhaust stroke TDC).

Update on progress of SV3, well I have been trying to get jib key out now for 3 weeks and still not got it completely out
and to top it all one of my HSS drills snapped off and refuses to come out, so I have wrapped it up in plastic filled with anything and everything that you could use to soak into flywheel and key and left well alone for now and got on with other things.
The block and piston are at Cox and Turner having a rebore and lining fitted, plus possibly a gudgeon pin and new rings.
The water tank was in the end going to be to much work and would never look right, so I got a new one from Franks tanks and an exhaust
made as well, I am in the middle of sanding the base down to get ready for primer and pics show that I have given some parts their fist coat of paint, I am trying to keep it close to its original colour Grey and then will do the lettering in black

Hi Rich,
Just read your comment about  POR 15.
How is it used - chuck some in the tank, swill around and pour out the excess??