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Another Lister D

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by Andrew1971 on Sat Mar 16 2013, 19:16

Excellent that's what i like to see another engine saved Very Happy Very Happy
Good work on the lister well done :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Another Lister D

Post by Smitty on Sun Mar 17 2013, 00:01

Sounds wonderful,

Nice and quick results!
Nothing wrong with the video either!

Regards, John.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by stationary stu on Sun Mar 17 2013, 13:38

Great video thanks for sharing with us. The engine sounds spot on and not that noisey, maybe it's due to the echo in the shed making it sound louder.

Stu.

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It runs....

Post by biomed32uk on Sun Mar 17 2013, 21:41

Thanks guys for the comments, it was running in the garage(workshop), and it may have been trapped as its down the back betweem the wall and the fence.

I shifted it down the big shed at the bottom of the garden and put it in there, still a bit noisey, if I run them at home I don't want the neighbours upset, fortunately they are a good way away down there, and i back on to farm land. I have seen some extra exhaust bits being effectivey a tin which slips over whats there with some extra baffles and wool in. I hung an old rag over it and it quited the crack. I like it, it sounds lovely, especially when its picks up.

Left it running for about two hours, and it kept ticking over not missing a beat. My only problem is I dont think it likes the oil I put in it, I had some 5-40 fully synthetic stuff kicking around, when it gets fully warm its a little smokey and smelly. Have a feeling I did this with the lawn mower and had to change it out for the same reason. Fully synth brings no benfit to it and is way ott for it.

Been busy today on the restoration one....

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 17 2013, 23:15

I just use the basic Comma Motorway multigrade oil in all my engines, it's either detergent free or very low detergent & non-synthetic (like classic, but less than half the price). You may find the synthetic oils a bit thin when warm, & may get noisy & smoky. Still, better than no oil at all.

Some say go for a single grade (or straight) oil, but they're a bit pricey for me. Nothing wrong with them, but I feel oil technology has moved on a bit since then & might as well take advantage of it. Basic multigrades are pretty cheap these days. Comma Motorway is a 20w50, which is perfect for both summer & winter in this country (well, good enough for these engines anyway) & can usually be had for £10 a gallon or around £3-£4 a litre. I contacted Comma about it to ask about the detergent content, but I'm still looking into it. They sent me the spec sheet (which is available on line) but the chemical names don't mean anything to me, I need to google each one & see if it is a detergent. I can't see it being a very special oil at those prices though.

As far as the noise goes, I took a trip down to Bognor Regis today to get a Lister D going for another forum member (he's been waiting months for me to get down there, & yes, we got it going Very Happy ). I thought it was a bit noisy, & it only had the small silencer on it. It's difficult to gauge noise though, often it's worth taking a walk down the garden to see what it sounds like at a distance. Also, sound gets bounced off walls & fences. You don't really hear them on the rally field, what with all the other engines going as well. You could try the bigger silencer (although I haven't watched your video yet, so don't know which one is on it). We had a D when we were kids, my brother & I. That never had a silencer on it, but the exhaust pipe was longer, probably a good 18", which always helps keep the noise down a bit.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by stationary stu on Mon Mar 18 2013, 13:05

If the noise of you engines could be a problem for you, rig up an exhaust system that is made up of flex exhaust pipe and an old car silencer, it could have a slight effect on the engine running as the exhaust is part of the engines basic set up and may cause a slight build up of back pressure in the exhaust system. Or you could be like another member who has to take his engines out into the countryside to run them up.

As for oil everuone has there own opinions but fully synthetic is not a good oil to pick, try for a cheap multigrade or an SAE 30 oil, the SAE30 is more expensive but this was what the engine would have been run on when first into service. I have to say I was a great believer in just stick any cheap oil in and it will be ok, well to a point that's true but after reading the spec on the oils I'd rather go with an SEA30 as these tend to hold particuls in suspension then drop them into the sump where as the multigrade oil is used in conjunction with an oil filter which most of these engines haven't got and the oil was cleaned in the filter where as without a filter it is just held in suspension.

Before this gets into an oil war it's up to the engine's owner to make up his own mind and to check out the internet and web sites and form there own opinion. If you find you need to discuss it more it might be best if you PM those you wish to speak with rather then upsetting the forum with everyones views.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by nutgone on Mon Mar 18 2013, 15:40

Stu, you can get straight oils pretty cheap these days. Lots of mower shops still sell them (I think some Briggs & Stratton engines still say to use straight oils).

So it really is just up to the owner's preference, as Stu says. Oil types are a long debate, it's been going on for years & still there's no right or wrong answers.

A subject best avoided eh, Stu??? Smile

BTW, I have also taken engines out into the countryside to run them (away from neighbours), it's quite nice, like having your own little crank-up Very Happy , but there's always ramblers about as well, so better if you can do it on a week day, when everyone's at work. I will most likely do it again some day though. We even took Ian's Kelly Kettle with us & brewed up some coffee (& hot chocolate for the kids), made an afternoon of it.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by stationary stu on Tue Mar 19 2013, 13:50

Your right Nuts if you shop about you can get some good deals on straight oils, I don't know if it's just me but there seems to be more oil companies producing straight oils so the price comes down.

I do sort of know someone from an oil supplier and I was going to ask Paul about them advertising on the forum and maybe get a little cash back in return for the forums upkeep. They do a discount for forum members (well they do on another forum I'm on) which is helpful as for some of the prices affraid affraid this is for special race oils and the likes.

Just to add abit off topic (who me!! never !!!LOL) Nuts them Kelly kettles are great, I know someone that has one and it's great for a hot drink at rallies or out fishing etc and not to much messing about. Expensive but worth it.

Stu.

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Magnetos and float chambers

Post by biomed32uk on Tue Mar 19 2013, 22:25

I found some oil at good price, Morris Golden Film SAE30 on a website VW Heritage, £22.31 for five litres delivered.

Think it will get on better with that.

Geoff

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by nutgone on Tue Mar 19 2013, 23:00

That's a good price delivered. You'd pay that for Comma Classic 30 if you went to a shop & got it (maybe slightly more actually, depending on the shop, then you've got to get down there, park up, etc etc. It all adds up) & Morris stuff is usually the more expensive one.

There's plenty there as well, 5 litres should keep you going for ages. Good stuff. :thumbup:

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by stationary stu on Wed Mar 20 2013, 13:12

That's a good choice Geoff there is a few members use that in there engines without any problems. And a good price. Very Happy

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Lister restoration

Post by biomed32uk on Sat Mar 23 2013, 12:29

I put some of the new oil in, and gave her a run this morning, amongst the snow outside and shes still smoky after about half an hour of running or so.

I have a feeling the rings are worn or are gummed up, wierd as theres ton of compression but I suppose as things are warning up and growing some oil is sneaking by.

I'm not bothered at the moment, as I don't really want the both of them in bits, where's the best place for rings, I know SEP sell them but is there a cheaper source.

Geoff

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by steve w on Sat Mar 23 2013, 12:55

i wonder if the smoke is a fuel and not an oil issue maybe its over choked?

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Lister restoration

Post by biomed32uk on Sat Mar 23 2013, 13:10

Steve, I don't think its over choked, as it ticks over like a sewing machine very evenly, if I enrichen the mixture it starts to cough and splutter, wind it back in and settles back to an even tick.

The smoke is blue and stinks, just like when you follow an old knackered car, it may even be the rings gummed up/bore glazed up as I have not looked in that far, I don't want to get too involved with this engine, bought it to play with really but I have a feeling that I am going to have to have a look.

Waiting for the weather to warm up so I can get in with the other one.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by steve w on Sat Mar 23 2013, 13:25

does sound like a worn or stuck ring issue

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by Stamford24 on Sat Mar 23 2013, 13:29

For rings you could try Phillip Daintree, Cox and Turner or Clupet Piston and Ring Co. Clupet are an unusual double split ring design especially for worn bores. You will pay more for them but they do work and are made specifically for the bore size of your engine.

Nuts, your note on Wico A coils fitting SR1's applies equally to RS1's, look inside the one you have just picked up, thanks for the confirmation though, I have an SR1 here that will be receiving that treatment.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by stationary stu on Sun Mar 24 2013, 13:08

That's a problem for you Geoff, I understand you don't want two engines stripped down at the same time but to put just a set of rings in one is a hell ov a lot of work to do without doing the rest of the engine at the same time. So to fix or not to fix that is the question, myself I'd let it run the way it is unless it gets worse and leave it till after you have the other engine all finished. My thought only!!!

I'm sure you'll do what evers best for you and working outside is a bit rough at present.

Stu.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 24 2013, 20:37

Could it be over oiling for any other reason??? What's the crank case breathing like? (I think they breathe through the rocker cover, so shouldn't be a problem there, just trying to run through a logical sequence really).

You could always try some Reddex down the plug hole, it might free off a stuck ring. I've always been surprised at just how much you can get away with on piston rings (obviously not on diesels, but on petrol engines), & usually the end gap is of less significance than the actual fit of the ring in the groove.

In fact, it's actually been found, in performance testing, that even staggering the ring gaps makes little or no difference to performance, most compression is lost around the back of the ring, in the groove, but obviously as the end gap gets bigger it becomes a bigger part of the overall problem & once it's past about 1/32" it is really causing problems. (If I ever find the website where I found all this out I will post a link. It was on an American piston ring manufacturers website).

Anyway, I would go with what Stu says, but maybe try some Reddex or something in the meantime. Put it down the plug hole, leave it over night to soak, blow it out the next day & fire her up. there'll be a massive plume of white smoke & the wonderful smell of the stuff, but once that clears it might just help.

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Another Lister D

Post by biomed32uk on Sun Mar 24 2013, 20:56

You beat me to it Nuts, was just having a browse before replying.

The temptation got the better of me this morning, and its so damned cold here I can't get on with the other D as its not paintng weather, and I have not got the paint !!.

Showing off my new found Lister D skills it was how quick I could extract the piston for a looking at, 3/4 of an hour later and it's out. It flew apart and the head come off easy.

I know I now have two in bits, but they are in separate places, at least most of the bits are.

The cylinder wall was coated in oil and the rings certainly look worn out, the bottom oil scraper looks totally ineffective as its not springing out at all, its a four part one with what I call the wavy washer in the middle and a spring in the bottom of the groove. From what I can tell by just squeezing the rings back into the piston there is heading on for a 1/16 ish gap I reckon, there is also a bit of wear in the bore with a ridge at the top.

This one could be heading into being bored out and over size pistons being fitted or a liner fitted, but for now I am going to put a new set of rings in, gapped on the tighter side and see what happens, it can't be worse and I have a feeling that the main issue is a shot oil control ring.

I have cleaned the head up, the exhaust port was full of carbon and oil looking like tar, all gone, valves lapped in which were in good shape anyway and now awaiting putting back. At least when I do this one properly its some jobs off the list, and I know what I do need to do.

Redex - I rememebr that, and filling my parents house with the smoke, me at the front tipping it into my old Morris Marina, head under bonnet reving it up, window open on house with draft pulling all the lovely smoke right through the house. Needless to say unimpressed parents !!.

Waiting for some prices on rings now...

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 24 2013, 21:34

Doubt it'll need a re-bore, I expect the new rings will be enough. After all it's only a stationary engine, & not likely to be worked hard for long periods ever again.

I would shop around for rings, personally I think StationaryEngineParts ones are very expensive, & probably cheap Indian stock.

That's good going though, you're a D-Type specialist now. :thumbup:

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Another Lister D

Post by biomed32uk on Sun Mar 24 2013, 22:50

Hope so, may just have to carefully stone the ridge down a little, as I have to persude the new new rings in over it with the gap set for the worn part of the bore.

I have asked Thorntons and Cox and Turner, lets see what tomorrow brings.

I like the post BTW about the run up out in the countryside, nice and sounds like fun. If I am ever down that way and I hear chug chug in the fields I'll know you're nearby Very Happy . Used to spend my summer holidays as a child down in Sussex, and think I heard my first Lister at the Amberley museum.

This is as far as I go on this one regarding major work, if it still smokes badly then in the future I can plan reboring or lining, when I have found an oversize piston.

Whens this bloody snow going...things to do....

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 24 2013, 23:05

No snow here. Very Happy

Although it looks like we may get some. I didn't think the sky had any more water in it! It's been raining for pretty much 12 months now. Crying or Very sad

Anyway, I was forgetting the piston has to go in the top on these. I never like top loading pistons, they always seem tight to get in & out. Give me a "barrel-over-piston" job any day.

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by blackvanman on Sun Mar 24 2013, 23:29

nutgone wrote:No snow here. Very Happy

Although it looks like we may get some. I didn't think the sky had any more water in it! It's been raining for pretty much 12 months now. Crying or Very sad

Anyway, I was forgetting the piston has to go in the top on these. I never like top loading pistons, they always seem tight to get in & out. Give me a "barrel-over-piston" job any day.
Good ring compressor, plenty of oil and the heal of a hammer, job done Smile

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by nutgone on Sun Mar 24 2013, 23:40

blackvanman wrote:
Good ring compressor, plenty of oil and the heal of a hammer, job done Smile

Hmmm, I don't do ring compressors. Although with the amount of engines I'm doing these days I am thinking of investing in one. (it's purely the fact it's only a hobby why I don't have one, I couldn't see the point when I would only use it once in a blue moon).

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Re: Another Lister D

Post by blackvanman on Sun Mar 24 2013, 23:49

nutgone wrote:
blackvanman wrote:
Good ring compressor, plenty of oil and the heal of a hammer, job done Smile

Hmmm, I don't do ring compressors. Although with the amount of engines I'm doing these days I am thinking of investing in one. (it's purely the fact it's only a hobby why I don't have one, I couldn't see the point when I would only use it once in a blue moon).

Yeah, I have a good one as it was my job etc, but you can get some cheap cheerfull ones, oh and by heal of hammer I do mean the end of the wooden handle Very Happy

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Re: Another Lister D

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