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Petter A1 restoration project

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Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Tue Jul 17 2012, 22:02

Hello all,

I have just been given 3 Petter A1 engines by a friend, they are all in poor states but I have taken the best from the bunch and plan to start resoration over the coming weeks - need something to do while the weather is so awful!

Anyway, letts start with the pictures:

Petter A1, engine number 550375, 3 BHP


Side view:


And again:


Top view:


Piston chamber - Actually looks quite clean to me, apart from the oil and gunk:


And again:


Exhaust valve needs reseating as can be seen, but it turns over fine:


Cylinder head:


Side view of the head:


Valve spings:


Fuel Tank:


That is it for the minute, I thought I had some more but it would seem they are all blured. I also have a short video of it turning over without the head on it. I will post that on youtube shortly.

Now, this is my first stationary engine restoration; over the years I have fixed my own vehicles, mainly Transits, rebuilt a Citron 2CV and even changed a few cylinder head gaskets, but I am in no way a mechanic - I'm actually an electronic engineer. However, I've long wanted a bench projet like this. My plan is a complete restoration but I will need some help along the way - this is where - hopefully Wink - you guys come in. The engines are still in the garage at the moment but I plan to bring them home next week once I've secured a place for them in my shed - my workbench is in said garage too so that will also be coming!

But I do have the engine cover to start on; so, what is the best way to get that sorted? I was thinking a good rub down with wirewool, then a load of rust treatment followed by a primer and number of coats of paint - which paint I don't know as yet. I am guessing that enough glossy engine paint will fill all of the pitted rust areas? Is that completely wrong?

I will keep you all posted on my work.

One last thing, does anybody have an electronic manual for this engine? And before anyone says, I mean a PDF, not a wiring schematic Wink

Cheers all,

Steven






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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by hob on Tue Jul 17 2012, 22:12

you might find this interesting, skip the bits not about the petter Very Happy

http://www.stationaryengineforum.net/t3372-my-first-engine

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Tue Jul 17 2012, 23:12

hob wrote:you might find this interesting, skip the bits not about the petter Very Happy

http://www.stationaryengineforum.net/t3372-my-first-engine

An excellent thread Neville, very informative... Hopefully mine will look as good as yours, I may even go for a similar paint scheme if you don't mind Wink

Steven

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by kevjhnsn on Wed Jul 18 2012, 01:01

you are missing the magneto and bakerlight drive disc to joinn mag to drive shaft the hole on the side of the engine with 2 bolts or studs for screwing magneto/electrics on engine
also this is a 3hp a1 and not the normal 1.5hp petter a1
think of memory most parts are the same
if you need a magneto for it i have a working spare for my 1.5hp petter a1
if you need one "MP me ON HERE---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>
also send me your private email adress and will send you a pdf manual also
cant send to you on the forum
kev

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Wed Jul 18 2012, 08:32

Hello Kevjhnsn,

Thank you for posting. I do have some additional parts for the motor, including the mag but I am unsure whether this works, so your kind offer may still be required yet. I will test mine first and then, if need be, we can talk business Smile

As for the manual, I have sent you my email with in a private message. Thank you for that offer. I look forwarding to have a read of it.

Many thanks,

Steven

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by hob on Wed Jul 18 2012, 08:50

looking at the number a rough date would be

543565 to 557999...................... 1948 - 1951

the petrol tank looks like a Lister D one, Petter one's are round.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Wed Jul 18 2012, 08:54

hob wrote:looking at the number a rough date would be

543565 to 557999...................... 1948 - 1951

the petrol tank looks like a Lister D one, Petter one's are round.

Yeah, I thought it was probably the wrong tank... I will see what I can do once I get it up and running Very Happy

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by stationary stu on Wed Jul 18 2012, 10:35

Looks like it could do with a good de-grease using gunk or similar then attack it with a wire brush attachment on a drill. As all ready stated the 3hp are more rare type of Petter A1 so well worth restoring.
Good luck and just ask any questions you want and we'll try our best to answer you, just as a note the Petter A1 that Neville restored is his first engine and what a great job he did so don't give up as a few do thinking it's to difficult it's not your lucky to have one of the easiest engines to start with.

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Wed Jul 18 2012, 14:03

hob wrote:
543565 to 557999...................... 1948 - 1951

Over twice as old as me!

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Wed Jul 18 2012, 14:13

stationary stu wrote:Looks like it could do with a good de-grease using gunk or similar then attack it with a wire brush attachment on a drill. As all ready stated the 3hp are more rare type of Petter A1 so well worth restoring.

Yeah, I'll get round to halfords in the next couple of days and some Gunk... nearly brought it on ebay but it is £5 more!

Is there anything else I should add to the shopping list while I'm there? Recommended rust treatment? and primer?

I've generally got all of the tools I need, except maybe a puller for that big pully... but that can wait for the minute...

stationary stu wrote:
Good luck and just ask any questions you want and we'll try our best to answer you, just as a note the Petter A1 that Neville restored is his first engine and what a great job he did so don't give up as a few do thinking it's to difficult it's not your lucky to have one of the easiest engines to start with.
Stu.

Yeah, I know that one, I've started to many projects and failed to finish, normally due to insufficient funds or tools, but I should have everything I need here! - Including a job lol!

I'm sure I will be calling on the forum and will keep it updated with my progress... Smile

Cheers all!

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Wed Jul 18 2012, 17:33

Hello all,

I was back over at the garage today... of course I had to have another look at what I had, so some more pictures...

This one is of the magneto that I have, it is a Wlco series A. I've noticed that the mounting bracket is slightly offset... Can this bracket be adjusted or will I need a different Mag?





This is the mounting bracket for the magneto just behind the gearbox - I'm guessing it is called a the gearbox; when I have the manual I will know all the buzz terms for these components:



The is the carb I have. Again, I'm not sure if it is the right one but looks like it will fit:



Some pictures of the flywheel and pully attached... how am I going to get this beast off? Smile:







That is it for now, I will be popping over to Halfords tommorow at some point to collect some supplies so I can start cleaning it and treating the rust. Hopefully get started on it early next week. Smile

Steven

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by nutgone on Wed Jul 18 2012, 17:53

Most of the rust should be fine after a good wire brushing & a coat of primer (don't let people fool you with talk of Red Oxide primer, it's no more than a colour these days, as none of them contain lead any more, any good primer is pretty much as good as another).

I remember buying one of these, back in the 90s, I was only a teenager, but very much into my engines. Someone had cosmetically restored it but hadn't managed to get it running, I sorted it & got it all together (thankfully the previous owner had done a lovely job with the paint, but wasn't much of an engineer). When I started it the damn thing raced off down the garden & I had to stop it in a hurry (think I pulled the plug lead). He'd connected the throttle linkage back to front, so as the governor was trying to slow the engine down it ended up making it go faster! affraid

Anyway, I sorted it & sold her on at the next rally, shame really, they're quite a nice engine.

You might even find you don't actually need to remove that flywheel & pulley, but if you do I'm sure you'll manage it. Just takes some effort & plenty of patience.

My advice, don't buy too much at Halfrauds, they are prohibitively expensive, you can always find stuff cheaper elsewhere. Also, don't bother with WD40, it's well outdated now. Get yourself some GT85 (red & black tin) to loosen off stubborn nuts & bolts. It works wonders on stuff like piston rings as well. I'll never buy WD40 again, after using the stuff.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by Ianhw77k on Wed Jul 18 2012, 20:07

Looks like a great project to get stuck into mate, good luck and keep us posted.

If it were me I'd give the engine a de-coke first, clean those valves up too then see if you can get her to run. Think about the cosmetics after that.
I could be totally wrong as its been a long time since I've done an engine but that's what my instinct would be.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Wed Jul 18 2012, 20:23

Ianhw77k wrote:Looks like a great project to get stuck into mate, good luck and keep us posted.

If it were me I'd give the engine a de-coke first, clean those valves up too then see if you can get her to run. Think about the cosmetics after that.
I could be totally wrong as its been a long time since I've done an engine but that's what my instinct would be.

Excellent shout...

This is what I will do once I get it in my garden. I will get a video up on youtube too Wink

Cheers,

Steven

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by kevjhnsn on Thu Jul 19 2012, 01:27

hob wrote:looking at the number a rough date would be

543565 to 557999...................... 1948 - 1951

the petrol tank looks like a Lister D one, Petter one's are round.

me too
i think its the long run tank ,nearly twice as long as the standard Ds tank
kev

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by stationary stu on Thu Jul 19 2012, 10:53

Rather then WD40 try and get some Plus gas it's been around for years and it great to use to free off siezed nuts and bolts or good old red diesel just give it a soak in that should help. If your going to remove the flywheel you'll need to get some Plus gas or similar sprayed on and do it for as long as you can doing it every day to give it a chance to work it's way in.
I can't understand what you mean when you say the mag mounting bracket is offset it looks ok to me or do you mean something else?
We are here to help so just ask away anything your not sure about.

Stu.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Thu Jul 19 2012, 11:18

Cheers for getting back to me on that one Stu.

I offered the mag up to the mounting flange in the flywheel housing and it appears to be offset to the right as opposed to the left by about 15 degrees. If I mount it the correct way up (From what I've seen in various pictures) it is currently obstructed by the crankcase, I could mount it upside down but this will then protrude a little... Does that make more sense? Smile

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by nutgone on Thu Jul 19 2012, 11:34

sjs205 wrote:Cheers for getting back to me on that one Stu.

I offered the mag up to the mounting flange in the flywheel housing and it appears to be offset to the right as opposed to the left by about 15 degrees. If I mount it the correct way up (From what I've seen in various pictures) it is currently obstructed by the crankcase, I could mount it upside down but this will then protrude a little... Does that make more sense? Smile

I saw that & did wonder. Is this mag definitely off this engine??? They should be adjustable anyway, but you'll only find out when you start to dismantle.

You'll need to dismantle that mag anyway, as it'll need a good clean up. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think the flange is adjustable on the mag, if not the mag then it'll be on the engine.

Stu, I've not tried Plus Gas, will have to give it a go. I've never really rated WD40 much, I know GT85 leaves a thin film of PTFE when it evaporates, so unlike WD40 it does actually lubricate things. I was astounded at how quickly it freed off some stuck piston rings I was struggling with once, literally a minute or two & they were totally free, couldn't believe it. But it is quite pricey, you need to find it at a show or something, we got ours at the Bristol Classic Bike show, but I think even there it was £2.50 a can. Damn good stuff though.

Can anyone else shed some light on this Wico Mag business? I remember them being quite easy to strip down, clean up & re build (just need to watch out for that impulse spring) but I can't remember exactly where that flange adjusted from.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by pauldg on Thu Jul 19 2012, 16:03

I can second on the plus gas - I've used the aerosol and the liquid versions and I rate them above gt85 to be honest. It might not be quite as good at ongoing lubrication, but it's more a releasing agent anyway.

That said, I'm currently using wd40 because I was given a tray of 12 cans of it... I have 3 left! Mix it with a bit of diesel and it does a cracking job Laughing

Paul

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by hob on Thu Jul 19 2012, 16:24

if the mag fits the same as mine (and some were different) it should fit like this


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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by nutgone on Thu Jul 19 2012, 16:31

Just asked my old-man about Plus Gas, he said unless they've improved it, he wouldn't bother. He was a mechanic during the 80s & 90s, back then it was pretty much all WD40 (which has it's uses, but also has it's limitations, as it is only a water displacer, hence the WD initials). From what you guys say I guess they've improved it a bit, unless it's just one of those things, different strokes for different folks.
I have 3 part cans of WD in my collection, I didn't buy any of them, they've all just "come my way" from various places, & I still use it quite a lot, just wouldn't buy it.

A lot of it is down to patience at the end of the day, none of these chemicals are miracle workers, sometimes a bucket of diesel is just as good as anything, but of all the sprays; I know where my hard earned cash is going Very Happy

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by sjs205 on Thu Jul 19 2012, 17:00

hob wrote:if the mag fits the same as mine (and some were different) it should fit like this


That is it exactly...

Mine seems to be the same angle but the opposite direct.

I'm going over to the garage shortly so I will also pick this up and see if the angle can be adjusted...

This picture also raises another question... how on earth am I going to get mine as clean! haha... I'll buy some thinners today to see if I can get the paint off of it... Smile

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by nutgone on Thu Jul 19 2012, 17:51

Someone was talking about paint stripper, somewhere on here. I was quite pleased with the one I used, it's just Wickes own, relatively non-toxic. It requires a fair bit of patience & there's still some elbow-grease involved, but I was very happy with it.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by pauldg on Thu Jul 19 2012, 18:17

I started using plus gas in the late 80's, early 90's - that wasn't the spray one though, it was in a tin. Maybe it's more concentrated like that?

I was one of the ones talking about stripper - if you're happy with the 'new formula', eco-mental-friendly, non-toxic, not quite as good as rubbing it with grass, expensive, (I could go on, but I'd start swearing Laughing ) then that's just fine. It does sort-of work. After a fashion. If you're patient. I had much more success with a wire brush in a drill though. Less mess too.

If, on the other hand, you liked the old stuff - the kind you didn't even have to open the tin and paint would fall off as you walked past - then the new one will be a sad disappointment to you. (I did always wonder what paint they used on the tin as it happens, why didn't that come off??)

While we're on the subject, I've got a nearly full 5 litre tin of 'new' nitromors here if anyone wants to buy it off me? Rolling Eyes

Alternatively, wait a little while, then bring it to me and I'll blast it for you... Discount for forum members Wink

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

Post by hob on Thu Jul 19 2012, 18:52

sjs205 wrote:Hello all,

This one is of the magneto that I have, it is a Wlco series A. I've noticed that the mounting bracket is slightly offset... Can this bracket be adjusted or will I need a different Mag?




Steven

comparing pictures of my mag with yours i begin to see what you mean...........your mounting flange is offset the opposite way to mine



i don't see any blue paint on the engine in your original photo's of the engine...........maybe its not from that engine?

sjs205 wrote:Hello all,

I have just been given 3 Petter A1 engines by a friend, they are all in poor states but I have taken the best from the bunch and plan to start restoration over the coming weeks - need something to do while the weather is so awful!

Steven


what are the other 2 engines like? and do they have mags with them.

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Re: Petter A1 restoration project

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