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Boulton & Paul

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Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Tue Jul 23 2013, 08:04

Got this at Astle, anyone know anything about it?

[URL=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130624-00347_zps7dbb7e0b.jpg.html][IMG]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130624-00347_zps7dbb7e0b.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

It is a Boulton & Paul, very similar to the Blake pumps seen about but with different valve covers and valves, this one being high volume rather than high pressure.

[URL=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130624-00348_zps32b1d476.jpg.html][IMG]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130624-00348_zps32b1d476.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130624-00346_zpse888d396.jpg.html][IMG]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130624-00346_zpse888d396.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by StewartH on Tue Jul 23 2013, 11:27

The only Boulton and Paul I know of were the Norwich based guys who made powered flying controls for the Sunderland flying Boat - and current VC10 fuel tankers - Looking at the pics it looks 100% for water so I'm stumped Sir! - it looks like an interesting find and finding the history is always good fun!

Boulton Paul are now part of the Dowty group - it could of been one of their first forays into pump manufacture before aircraft were on the scene??? perhaps....maybe???? Good luck

Best

Hamish

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by matt86 on Tue Jul 23 2013, 11:58

That's a interesting pump Rob. Good luck with it.

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Tue Jul 23 2013, 12:55

It is a bit interesting, and as I am only 20 odd miles from Norwich it has a nice local connection for me, just can't find anything on the damn thing!!

Boulton & Paul on the web just turns up windows, doors and aircraft.

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by StewartH on Tue Jul 23 2013, 15:56

Hi Villiers - this guy might be able to send you in the right direction - its a historical reference web site run by an enthusiast for all things not door, window or aircraft....although no mention of pumps on his website it must be the same company.....

http://www.boultonandpaulengines.info

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by StewartH on Tue Jul 23 2013, 16:06

The best part of having a low workload at the moment is....I have some spare time on my hands......

they are mentioned on page 683 of The Century Supplement to the Dictionary of Gardening: A Practical and Scientific Encyclopaedia of Horticulture for gardeners and horticulturists......it mentions the engines and a small reference to pumps....

http://books.google.com/books?id=KO1aAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA683&lpg=PA683&dq=pump+%22boulton+and+Paul%22+-aircraft&source=bl&ots=0v_oltMfXo&sig=uy28xakgEU-0Dq3Y9mQTWDXr7uw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0qbuUdXkI9Ld4AOmiYCIBw&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=pump%20%22boulton%20and%20Paul%22%20-aircraft&f=false

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Tue Jul 23 2013, 16:13

[quote="StewartH"]Hi Villiers - this guy might be able to send you in the right direction - its a historical reference web site run by an enthusiast for all things not door, window or aircraft....although no mention of pumps on his website it must be the same company.....

http://www.boultonandpaulengines.info[/quote]

Thanks Hamish but I was on the phone to Dave Carter last night and he couldn't help. All about the electric sets and engines but buggerall on the pump. We came to the conclusion that it [i][u]might[/u][/i] have been made by Blake, who's pump is very much like this but when you see the two side by side there is enough differences to make you wonder.

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by StewartH on Tue Jul 23 2013, 16:23

Oh well - back to the drawing board then! - good luck in the hunt Squire!

Hamish

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Tue Jul 23 2013, 16:49

Thanks, I'll keep a looking and anything I turn up will post and let you all know.

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Sun Oct 06 2013, 14:03

Have made a start on giving this pump "the once over" and stripped it down with the view to repainting and a better platform/trolley.

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130919-00392_zpsfb806664.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130919-00392_zpsfb806664.jpg[/img][/url]

First off was to remove the valve chamber, removed all the bolt on parts then undid the 4 bolts and that slid off easy.

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130919-00393_zpsc777dab6.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130919-00393_zpsc777dab6.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130919-00397_zps1eb9258e.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130919-00397_zps1eb9258e.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130919-00398_zpseb50a2f1.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130919-00398_zpseb50a2f1.jpg[/img][/url]

This left the piston and cups exposed and easy to remove.
All the piston components laid out for inspection.

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130919-00394_zps69df0fae.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130919-00394_zps69df0fae.jpg[/img][/url]

Will need a new pair of retaining nut I think...

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130919-00396_zps691067fd.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130919-00396_zps691067fd.jpg[/img][/url]

Cups are worn but still serviceable so I shall reuse them for now as the pump works ok with them as they are, soaking in some cooking oil at the moment to soften them a bit more.

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130919-00395_zpse44b8937.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130919-00395_zpse44b8937.jpg[/img][/url]

Interestingly the top lay shaft had a pair of grease nipples fitted but on removing this shaft I found that it was an oil lubricated shaft, someone at some point had fitted the nipples, didn't help to lube the shaft all it did was clog everything up with grease:banned:

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/c340ffa4-f8a4-4f17-b227-64d71eba4653_zps79feeac5.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/c340ffa4-f8a4-4f17-b227-64d71eba4653_zps79feeac5.jpg[/img][/url]

Eccentric gear from main shaft removed.

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130924-00402_zps107e33ee.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130924-00402_zps107e33ee.jpg[/img][/url]

All the pins in the con rod are held in with split pins, new one to me, never came across that before.

[url=http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rcplumber/media/IMG-20130926-00407_zps461c30e6.jpg.html][img]http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/rcplumber/IMG-20130926-00407_zps461c30e6.jpg[/img][/url]

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Lewis MacRae on Sun Oct 06 2013, 14:28

Looks like you have made a great start on the pump, are you going to restore it and if you are what colour are you painting it?

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Sun Oct 06 2013, 15:20

That's the plan, have made a start with the paint removal as it isn't that good, coming off ok at the moment! The grease was the hardest to shift, grease where grease shouldn't be is not easy to get rid of!!!

Paint colour to be a shade of black on the main pump with red gears and con rod and inside the sump a cream colour.

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Tue Oct 08 2013, 21:42

Got the crankcase cleaned up and a coat of red oxide on that, didn't clean up to bad once the grease was out!



Now cleaning the pump body, this is a bit harder to clean as there are lugs and funny shaped bit to get to. One thing I have noticed is that the castings on this pump are as rough as a badgers arse in places, especially where the two half's of the sand box joined.


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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by matt86 on Tue Oct 08 2013, 23:17

Looks like you have been busy Rob, you mainly a Pump man? One point I had over 7 pumps:oops: 

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Foden on Tue Oct 08 2013, 23:33

matt86 wrote:Looks like you have been busy Rob,  you mainly a Pump man?  One point I had over 7 pumps:oops: 

Matt
Odd isn't it, I very rarely exhibit a waterpump but I have just worked out that I have nine kicking around my garages and shed in various states of condition!Shocked   Plus several vacuum pumps of course.........Embarassed   That will look good when you finish it Rob, it might even make the trip to Astle Park.Smile 

Pete.

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Wed Oct 09 2013, 06:43

Sure will be coming to Astle Pete, after all, that's where I got it from Cool 

Yes Matt, goes with the trade I suppose, got more pumps than engines!

Got a pair of Boulton & Paul pumps, pair of domestics, Lee Howl Super Major, Drake & Fletcher, Godwin A2, Bamford gear pump, Lee Howl centrifugal pump, Ruston centrifugal pump,Goulds....

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by matt86 on Wed Oct 09 2013, 13:01

I recently had a clearout of pumps . now i only have 2

my joseph evans pump which is similar to climax number 2 . great pump i have to say so and my gascoignes vacuum pump which has not been used to set anything up yet , i may decide to have a clearout of some of the milking bits . and my cattle cake grinder as i do like a water pump but with some iron pipes rather than copper .

matt

Ps im on the lookout for a galv water tank or a tin bath .

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Foden on Wed Oct 09 2013, 13:13

matt86 wrote:I recently had a clearout of pumps . now i only have 2

my joseph evans pump which is similar to climax number 2 . great pump i have to say so and my gascoignes vacuum pump which has not been used to set anything up yet , i may decide to have a clearout of some of the milking bits . and my cattle cake grinder as i do like a water pump but with some iron pipes rather than copper .

matt

Ps im on the lookout for a galv water tank or a tin bath .

matt
 
Me too, but we settled on a walk-in shower instead...Cool 

Pete.

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by matt86 on Wed Oct 09 2013, 13:56

Foden wrote:
matt86 wrote:I recently had a clearout of pumps . now i only have 2

my joseph evans pump which is similar to climax number 2 . great pump i have to say so and my gascoignes vacuum pump which has not been used to set anything up yet , i may decide to have a clearout of some of the milking bits . and my cattle cake grinder as i do like a water pump but with some iron pipes rather than copper .

matt

Ps im on the lookout for a galv water tank or a tin bath .

matt
 
Me too, but we settled on a walk-in shower instead...Cool 

Pete.
oh dear Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes 

that reminds me of the chap you see going around with a dummy in a shower ....Did you notice him at ducklington ???

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Lewis MacRae on Wed Oct 09 2013, 15:34

Villiers wrote:Got the crankcase cleaned up and a coat of red oxide on that, didn't clean up to bad once the grease was out!



Now cleaning the pump body, this is a bit harder to clean as there are lugs and funny shaped bit to get to. One thing I have noticed is that the castings on this pump are as rough as a badgers arse in places, especially where  the two half's of the sand box joined.

Your pumps looking good, are you putting it on the trolley it was on or a new one?

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Thu Oct 10 2013, 07:47

Going to be a new trolley Lewis as the old one is just crap. Not very nice to look at and it has a lovely set of big wheels that would be better on an engine! I have some ideas for a trolley design so will probably go with that, it involves fitting a tank on as wall so I don't have the agro of setting up the pipework at a rally field. Photos will follow as things progress.

I have also been told this pump is a "copy" of an Australian design, this helps as there is bugger all on the web about B&P apart from doors and aeroplanes.

http://www.pistonpumps.com.au/index.html

http://www.pistonpumps.com.au/documents/Exploded_view_ajax_A2andA3.pdf

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by matt86 on Thu Oct 10 2013, 08:00

looks simular to a blake type of pump .

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Thu Oct 10 2013, 08:04

Yes that's what I thought to begin with but if you study this one then you see it isn't really that much like a Blake, I was on the lookout for a Blake, there was one at Henham last year that took my fancy but it had some "issues" with what was inside, there wasn't anything!

When this one came along I decided it was better than the Blake pumps as this is high volume, not high pressure of a Blake so it will shift a lot of water whereas the Blake pumps just dribble!

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by matt86 on Thu Oct 10 2013, 08:11

Villiers wrote:Yes that's what I thought to begin with but if you study this one then you see it isn't really that much like a Blake, I was on the lookout for a Blake, there was one at Henham last year that took my fancy but it had some "issues" with what was inside, there wasn't anything!

When this one came along I decided it was better than the Blake pumps as this is high volume, not high pressure of a Blake so it will shift a lot of water whereas the Blake pumps just dribble!
thats a added bonus then , i wouldnt mind a high volume pumping pump thats not overly fast , ah there is allways enstone .

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Re: Boulton & Paul

Post by Villiers on Thu Oct 10 2013, 08:16

Indeed, Although I like the Blake pumps (Got offered the choice of 50 once, all with hoses, lances and electric motors) I don't like the piss poor amount of water they pump, even a little domestic will out pump one of those in GPH.

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